Green Room - Week 9 - Day 1

[clauderainsrm]

Last night featured some goodbyes: https://therealljidol.dreamwidth.org/1020916.html

and a Hello to a new topic: https://therealljidol.dreamwidth.org/1020951.html

It also had Golden Ticket byes becoming available: https://therealljidol.dreamwidth.org/1020455.html

and the usual offer to discuss how people did in the "email poll". (see the goodbye post)

***

People seem to enjoy data, so I have a little bit for you. Maybe more later.

- "Email me your votes" should, in theory, have the same amount of votes as "click here". After all, ANYONE can vote. It's not like it's a restricted, contestant only, poll. But actually it's usually less. In this case, just over half as many people responded to the email request as do the "click here". It's also not the same people. There were definitely some familiar names. But across the board, in every category (including active contestants), the numbers were down. I'd say that's been true of a good 75% of the times that I've ran this type of poll. People are willing to sign up for a website and click a box - but aren't as willing to send an email. It's less work (for those not already on that site) but some folks just aren't willing to do it.


- There were 4 contestants who broke out of their "usual standing" in the polls, in a positive way, with vote totals spiking up a significant amount.

- There were 2 contestants who I thought were "out" about halfway through. One of them ended up having a mid-poll rally where nearly every single ballot that came in the second half had their name on it. The other had their name show up on the *last 2 ballots* received, and was saved by a single vote.

Both of those examples, to me, say - keep putting yourself out there, and never give up hope. Because your fate can change, if you work hard enough to help it along.

There were definitely a handful of stand-outs, people who did really well. But some of them are in that "improved in a significant way" category with the voters, and some usually do well. That said - I think Second Chance could very well play a huge part in what our Top 10 is going to look like. I predict a few major shakeups before the end of this. (Not even knowing who is coming - just knowing how the Top 15 to about Top 6 or so usually goes.) There are always a few unexpected stumbles/bye-outs and just weeks that go absolutely wrong... it's a short mini season, but a long road ahead of us game wise.

Comments

[bleodswean]

I utterly adore this about you - you look at life with such an underlying positive vibe and interpret things with that vibe. Such as these statistics! Nice, G!

I think it is a different season than others I've written in, but the writing is high caliber and the drama non-existent which, in my book, is a good thing.

Ultimately, I do believe we are all waiting for the next social media platform.

[tonithegreat]

I wish I still had hope for the next social media platform being an improvement. I mean, not specifically in the Idol context, but generally. I don’t think kind of logic shapes the internet anymore, sadly.

[bleodswean]

I try to avoid that way of thinking. :) I want to be open to what the next shiny thing is. I haven't lost hope in the world wide web because I do believe it's an evolutionary breakthrough. It's shrinking the world back down to village size and that's important for the human psyche.

Most everything is phasic.

[clauderainsrm]

I'm more in this boat. I think there *is* going to be something new and awesome. Where we differ (maybe) is that I think it's going more and more toward the short form and away from the long form of communication. Which doesn't help me any.

[dmousey]

I agree G, people are losing the art of actually using words, and instead the writing words and whole phrases are being pared down to initials or emojies. This mix of communication is beginning to come natural - Why? (IMO) The world's children.

[tonithegreat]

You definitely have the better attitude! I’m feeling particularly curmudgeonly this holiday season, but I keep trying to fight it. Too much loss this year, I rail into the void! But indeed it is all phasic and humans are capable of really rad things too and it’s important to stay open to possibilities.

[bleodswean]

*hugs* I had so much loss last year that I think it made me more hopeful in some ways and definitely less in others.

[kehlen.livejournal.com]

I am with you. Tried a few shiny new ones, stayed on Twitter and Instagram, but none offer the depth of connection LJ creates.

But - maybe.

[tonithegreat]

I haven’t been doing a good job of getting the word out about Idol in general this mini season, alas. I need to do better! But I will say, from my perspective; it’s harder to ask friends to read entries and vote by email than it is to ask them to read entries on a poll and tick boxes, even if they’ll have to jump through hoops and sign up to tick boxes. I actually started to message people over lunch yesterday to get them to read and vote and then before I could put together the message with the explanations and instructions, work interrupted and that was that. With the poll, you can just text a single link to friends with a shorter explanation of what to do. I think it’s good to mix it up with the voting, though.

[clauderainsrm]

Oh definitely. It's totally harder trying to get people to send a message. A single link that's easy to understand.

Keeping different ways of voting reduces the danger of a static audience creating static results. It also forces different kinds of engagement with the game. Which means you have to stop for a moment and put thought into it. When you do that, it's never a bad thing. (But it does have a negative impact on turn out, so that part isn't good)

[bsgsix]

You put so much time and thought into this, G. Thank you for that. <3

Now, my unpopular opinion:

I like the email voting as opposed to the click-the-box voting. Sure, click-the-box is easier, but that means people have to put more thought (in theory) to email votes - especially since results are hidden. I like that as well. Seeing who is temporarily "ahead" or "behind" isn't a fun feeling for most people, and as I've said to you before, I have WATCHED votes be taken away to give someone else an advantage. I don't think that's a great method of supporting fellow writers. However, with an emailed vote? That cannot happen. A vote is sent, and unless another is emailed that says, "Don't count my vote for bsgsix because I've decided I want my friend abcperson to win," that eliminates that weird takeaway that makes everyone feel crappy when it happens to them. I know because I watched it happen to me in this particular game.

Just a thought for the future. Your game, your rules, and I'm playing either way (though I could be voted out, but you know me - I endure, lol, and I'd find some way to TRY to get back in!), but if this is more about writing and support than actual "go ahead and take away your original vote for someone," "blind" voting is a better way to go. Then you also can see who is actually paying attention when the votes come in, too. Emailing you isn't really THAT complicated. If I managed to pull it off in my current physical and emotional state, I'm certain 99% of people here can as well. ;)

[clauderainsrm]

I can say, without hesitation or fear that I will change my mind one day down the road, that we will never be 100% email votes. Or even a majority of email oriented votes. That way leads to audience disengagement. Polls get people excited. They are something to watch. And yes, they do lead to occasional strategic voting.

There's a part of me that see that from more of a production side as well. Of, "who knows what is going to happen next". And since I'm the only one who can actually see when that happens (you can see a number change, but I can see who does it, and when) it does color my view.

Such as I know for a fact that at least one of the times a vote has changed that they accidentally voted for the wrong person. I don't think it was you. (Note: I went back in the process of writing this to check. It wasn't a vote for you) But they clicked a box and then realized that they meant to click the box below it. I know that, because they emailed me about it. I told them how to change their vote. I didn't say to take away the vote, just that they could add the vote for the person they had intended to vote for... but they did remove their erroneous vote in the process of correcting it to the intent.

I totally get that seeing a vote vanish can suck. Especially if you are in danger.

You're wrong though that no one ever changes their votes via email, or makes conditions. I've totally received the "Vote for X, Y, Z - unless voting for them will eliminate me." emails. (the person isn't playing this mini season, but they had previously been eliminated because they had done that, and has become gun-shy. :D)

Blind voting definitely has it's place and will always be a part of the process. But the beauty is in the variety of ways to voting, and keeping things from getting too static. People stop seeing polls for too long, and they wander away. I don't think anyone wants readers to wander away. The hope is that seeing polls will get them to tell their friends to come click on the pretty boxes too! Which, hopefully, ends up with them engaging with the writers.

It's all a balancing act. (cue Halfshellvenus to point out that I'm a Libra. :D)

[bsgsix]

Like I said, unpopular opinion. I know you created this as a "Survivor" competition, and that's cool, but watching votes being taken away is unnecessary. That was just something I wanted to point out. Once a vote has been cast, removing it to make sure your friend has more votes isn't strategic as much as it is cruel. But again, that's me, and that's my perspective.

(And as a Scorpio, it's an odd one, given my evil nature. But truly, I don't like hearing - or even feeling myself - that someone could have stayed when a vote was removed on the last day.)

And sure, I bet votes are taken away via email. I think I said in my comment that that might happen? Now I don't remember. I'm so tired. I'd say "blame cancer," but that's an excuse, so - blame me, I'm tired. ;) But do people love watching polls that much? Or just a majority of people? I don't watch them, which might be a hindrance to me if I'm in danger of being voted out. Watching once, just to see someone take away a vote, was enough to turn me off of watching. Sure, I vote, as you know (you read my email, lol), but I don't watch. I don't like to watch people act unfair in the name of a competition which should be (to me) about writing and voting for WHAT you like, not WHOM you like.

I wonder what other far more interesting ways you can have us cast votes, though, besides a public, open poll and an email vote. Carrier pigeon, perhaps? Smoke signal? Morse code? I think we need to go deeper here. ;)

[clauderainsrm]

I'm going to go right to reading people's minds to get information on who they want to vote for... let's start that now... *reads the minds of Idol voters*... OMG, never again. Can I get something to scrub that from my head, forever? ;)

[bsgsix]

LOL. But look at ALL THAT DELICIOUS POWER... I mean, you can use that. Right? Right. Thought so. ;)

[clauderainsrm]

"But do people love watching polls that much? Or just a majority of people? I"

Yes. I get regular complaints on weeks where they aren't polls.

Part of my attitude toward votes being taken away is "well, there is a strategy involved" and part of it is "There is literally nothing I can do to stop it, even if I made a rule, because that's just not how DW/LJ polls are made." and so I looked for that first reason. :)

[bsgsix]

Fair enough. Again, super-unpopular opinion, and sure, polls are easier and they give people something to watch. I get it, and trust me, you know I'm not *trying* to be an ass (if I wanted to be an ass, I'd let you know, haha). As for the voting? Maybe it it strategy. Maybe it's error. Maybe it's Maybelline. We'll never know, unless you 100% do, but then you have to do that whole mind-reading thing again...

[kehlen.livejournal.com]

Why, there are topsy-turvy votes, when people with MOST votes leave. I have never lived to see such a week myself though, I don't think so.

[bsgsix]

I was actually just thinking about that... NOT voting for your favorites. But that just strikes me as odd. And kind of mean.

So hey, G, there ya go. ;)

[clauderainsrm]

Topsy Turvy is the boogeyman in the closet.

It's actually been in the game about 4 times (I don't feel like looking it up, but that feels right. Maybe 5).

It's only been used *once*. The very first time it was introduced in Season 3.

They say that when you put a gun on the table, someone has to pick it up and shoot it. But sometimes it's far more interesting to see who *doesn't* pick it up and shoot it, or even better, who picks it up so that other people can't shoot it.

[kehlen.livejournal.com]

"Vote for X, Y, Z - unless voting for them will eliminate me."

Please never reveal who they are, or I'll probably never vote for them again :). I find this kind of strategy repulsive.

[bsgsix]

Okay, see, I FULLY agree with that. Which is why I do not like polls, where removing a vote (unless someone accidentally checked a box, meaning to click the one above or below it) is basically the same thing. If you vote for me one day, but then your friend is one vote behind me and I watch my vote disappear? It seems fishy. I'm not really seeing it HERE, but it's happened. And while I did watch a vote disappear in a poll here, it was only once, so I'm willing to chalk that up to a one-time error, not some weird conspiracy.

At the end of the day, I'm just going to write, and hope people like or at least respect my craft. And then I hope they vote for that so I can continue to play. On top of that, I'll chat with people and make friends. But I'm leaving the whole clique and "I'm better than these people but as good as these people, let's form an alliance" bit to the wolves, because I'm not interested. I'll do what I do and hope that's enough.

[clauderainsrm]

"Please never reveal who they are, or I'll probably never vote for them again :). I find this kind of strategy repulsive."

I'd never reveal how a specific person votes.

**At least not intentionally, there have been two times when a poll has not been restricted to only me being able to view the results, and neither time ended well**

[murielle]

You know hon, that might have been me. A few weeks back, while I was still figuring out the DW poll, I was in and out about half-a-dozen times.

I print out the poll each week. I check each entry as I read it, and then add a checkmark for each entry I'm going to vote for, but I messed up that week. And, as I said, was in and out several times. One of those times I removed a vote I had not intended to give, but had given by mistake--It wasn't you, I know that--though I did add votes, too. I certainly didn't change my vote to give anyone an advantage over anyone else so I can't speak to that.

I have since figured out the issue I was having with the poll, but today I made a different kind of boo boo and had to try and figure that out fast. My learning curve is more like a rollercoaster, or a three-dimensional maze.

Anyway, it might have been my bungled mess you saw that week.

[bsgsix]

And it could have been an accident! I won't rule that out. But I also know that, a while back, a group of people (I don't think they are all playing here, because this was like, 2010? My memory is terrible; forgive me) openly said they gave and took away votes and formed a little clique, and it took away from my love of Idol. I stopped playing for a while. When I came back, I then had to leave due to cancer the first time (in 2013) - go figure. :) So no one forced me OUT; I left via free will. I just don't like to openly hear of cliques designed to keep "popular" kids in. Everyone here should be on equal ground, and voting SHOULD be based on quality.

Then again, it doesn't work in American voting, so why should that work anywhere? LOL. ;)

But errors occur, and of course that could have been. I'm not mad; I just know I'm not the only person it's happened to, and how odd it feels when you think you're doing well or wrote a strong piece and the numbers don't reflect that.

And now that I've said all this, I'm sure I'll be voted out this week, and I've yet to finish my entry, haha. It's an unpopular opinion because I don't like competition as much as supporting others (and then I don't want to seem like a hypocrite, because no, I don't vote for everyone - my tastes vary based on what was written and how well it was written/how it grabbed me/etc). Probably a huge character flaw, honestly.

So no worries. Things happen! I just wanted to mention the other side of things, as a person who doesn't like polls. :) <3

[clauderainsrm]

Oh, if we're talking Season 6, there definitely were cliques and they voted strategically for people they liked. The justification was always (and always is in cases like this) that the people they liked were "the best writers". (Because people with similar tastes tend to be drawn to each other, and become an echo chamber)

The Cool Kids table tends to go underground these days. (If it's even around anymore. Doesn't seem to be, but I'm not part of every conversation). Because the same thing would happen season after season - they would establish themselves. Get cocky. Try to get someone out. It would leak. One by one the cool kids table would be voted out. :)

I can think of a couple seasons where there were rival cool kids tables. :D That's kind of how Season 4 ended, with two groups of friends who thought *they* were the best writers - and the one person who avoided all the drama and kept her eyes on actually writing, ended up beating all of them. :)

Keeping above the drama and not letting yourself get sidetracked by it is pretty much the template of an Idol winner. Focus on the writing and supporting your fellow writers is always the mark of a champion. (or Champion, I seem to recall you coming back as one a time or two. :D)

[bsgsix]

Oh, we are DEFINITELY talking Season 6, which is the one I had to leave due to surgeries (I had like, 5 in 3 months. AND I think I hit Top 25 that season out of 200+ people!). It was fun, but by God, those were some clique-forming people, and at first, it annoyed me. I didn't like their openly-admitted justifications. But to be honest, I kept out of it and stuck to myself, the people who just wanted to write for the joy of it and the skill of it, and did my thing. I'm not a clique girl. I'm a "do my own thing and let people follow ME" girl, and if no one follows, that's cool. I'd still rather do my own thing. :)

But I don't see a "clique" here in the same way. I think there are favorites (I will keep that to myself only because it's an opinion at the moment and opinions are like assholes, blah blah...), and I think 2-3 people will probably always talk strategy, but here? It feels more open and supportive. It's a different platform with a different crowd, and that is bringing a different feel to the game. I LIKE it, to be honest. I know you don't like DW, and hell, I still can't figure it out half the time. But I am not on LJ, so... here I am, enjoying myself, and if I'm voted out this topic, I had a fun time. I don't feel like it WOULD be based on a clique, unless I just summoned ALL MY POWERS and created one against me with these comments, lol. ;)

I'm a "let's write the thing that's within me" writer, and come what may. I don't do drama, because you know how my personal, offline life is. I write, I support, and I care, and that is honestly what I want to do. :) (And yes! I was brought back three times as a Champion! That is a silly thing for me to remember, but I was, and once was during the Top 5. It was for Tracy. I remember that! I was so honored.)

[clauderainsrm]

Honestly? I don't think it's the platform. I think it's the people.

Because the things you are describing that you like are pretty much how it's been for the last few years. (give or take a blip or two).

[bsgsix]

Well, I've not been around, so good to know things have been more friendly, less clique-related, and generally - better? Because while I can absolutely ignore clique BS, I think it's terrible and should be shut down.

No matter the platform, there will be good and bad. I'm just glad to be here to SEE the good, in this season, and I'm happy.

Now, back to my not-so-joyful entry, HA. ;)

[murielle]

And I shouldn't like polls,because I am addicted to checking them. Why? Because I am so freeeeking insecure, and I am convinced that I'm going home every single week. And no matter how well it looks on the polls until Gary posts the outcome and I don't see my name on it I am a pain in my own neck.

I have heard about the cliques. I didn't realize the extent of their machinations (sorry, it's my favorite word right now). And that's sad. But as Gary has pointed out many times this used to be a very different game.

I'm like you. I'd rather be about the supporting and cheering than the actual voting. It's what I love about the Idol experience. But I get that it's a big part of the game.

And I SO don't think what you've written here will affect your votes because it won't affect your writing and your writing is so good. *Hugs* <3

[clauderainsrm]

"But as Gary has pointed out many times this used to be a very different game.

I'm like you. I'd rather be about the supporting and cheering than the actual voting. It's what I love about the Idol experience. But I get that it's a big part of the game" "

What *I* love is that this is all part of the game. It's a built in component. Every new group gets to decide how their society is going to work. They hammer it out. They talk about it. They figure out what they value, and how they want to relate to each other. None of what they decide is "wrong" and none of it is "right", it's what the groups values and each of them have their own place within Idol, because Idol is built for everyone to find what they want to find within it.

And then the next group forms with a new season/mini season (Sometimes it's mostly the same people, but in a different time in their lives.) and the process starts again.

[murielle]

I was just thinking that, Gary!

Y'all are getting older! LOL!

You're right each group does create its own game. And that is the way it should be.

[bsgsix]

I've noticed this group on DW seems more supportive and less clique-like, unless I've not been paying attention. I think people work to comment and bring their best, and to lift others up, and honestly, I LIKE that. There's competition, but I don't think it's an awful society over here. It's different, and different isn't bad. So for now, I'm a fan. :) (And I'll probably remain one!)

[murielle]

I'm totally biased, of course, but I completely agree with you. This is a very special group this year. There's a lot of love at the table, and you are one of the people making it so. :-)

[bsgsix]

I think this is a wonderful group of writers and, even more importantly, people (or Cylons, as some of us may be...). ;) I like things here on DW and wish they could stay that way, but all seasons will differ, of course.

And thank you! All of your kind comments (and the fact you comment so much to everyone) wins you some "nicest person here" award, I swear. I always think that because you always comment, and your dedication is amazing. <3

[murielle]

You're a sweetheart!...rayaso won that honor last full season. Deservedly so!

[bsgsix]

Thanks! And I wasn't around last season, but I truly believe it! :)

[bsgsix]

I think it's okay to like what you like. And we all have our insecurities. Checking the poll makes ME insecure, like I'm cursing it, so I just don't do it (unless I'm voting!) until right before it closes! I may go in to add a vote if something struck me and I hadn't voted on it yet, but I try to vote all at once and be done with it.

Cliques existed, but I don't see it as much here. I see more support here, and I like that a lot. I like supporting fellow writers - those new to the craft and those who could write myriad novels and have them published - and telling my story to the world. That's the game I'm here to play: to write, to read, to encourage, and to support. And to tell my truth, from dark to inspirational to awful to wonderful.

And thanks. I was mostly just kidding (though "get rid of polls!" really IS an unpopular opinion and I acknowledge that!), but those are kind words, and I greatly appreciate them. I'm glad you feel that way about my writing - that means a lot! Thank you! *hugs* <3

[dmousey]

You and I both Murielle! I'm insecure around the caliber of writer Idol attracts. I struggle because of not going to school beyond eleventh grade. The polls freak me out -OCD. Now however, in general it has become a kinder gentler Idol. People ARE more supportive. I do like that.

*and I remember when it was clique-y.

[murielle]

*Hugs*

A wonderful education is a gift, but not one that all of us get. The marvelous thing is we can educate ourselves by reading and learning every day. You are a fantastic writer. I know this--remember our intersection thingy? You've got nothing to worry about. Trust me. :-)

[dmousey]

**hugs back** I absolutely do remember it (Our Intersection)! And yes, I received a technical schooling instead and gained a career that allowed me to raise my brats.

I always stressed reading to my kids for the very reason, that if you can read, you can do anything. 😊💜✌
🙏

[megatronix]

It's interesting reading all this. I've been in Idol a few separate times, and have completely lost track of when!! I'm going to have to go look that up. My first season I was petrified of screwing things up and felt out of place because I didn't feel sure that I understood the process, and was very intimidated by the writers. But then I realized it wasn't as hard as it felt, and suddenly I just felt in place here. I guess week after week of people enjoying my writing didn't hurt the evolution of that process one bit! ;)

All that is to say that I am one of the more late-comers relatively speaking, and I don't remember cliquish-ness, which I'm glad about!

And I also really love when groups are so supportive, bonding with other writers, and reading such great material week after week. Having Idol be back right now is a really enjoyable part of life at the moment, like when it started up, it felt like a reunion, or something, even if many of the folks were new to me. It was just cool having this familiar wonderful hub again to meet back at, I guess is the best way I can think to describe it right now.

Long story short, kinder gentler supportive Idol is what I've known and cherished, and know, and cherish now, too! :) I feel very fortunate to be able to participate, for sure!

[kehlen.livejournal.com]

I joined in season 7, and heard rumours of what was going on in season 6. Probably why I simply byed-out relatively early, because they weirded me out (I was much less focused back then than I am now, too).

[clauderainsrm]

Having been the one to bring up Season 6 by name, I feel that I need to correct any misconceptions about it.

Yes, there were groups of friends who shared similar tastes. Some people said they were alliances. But there are groups of friends with similar tastes in this mini season as well. Heck, there are more actual families (a potentially built in "personal alliance") and close friends now than ever before!

Season 6 though was iconic. Looking at the list of who played is like a "LJ Idol Legends" scrapbook. There were some amazing writers and iconic moves (including a Top 10 sacrifice of the personal who a lot of people thought was going to win), shocking eliminations in that final stretch and, most importantly, some *fantastic writing*.

I'd put it up against any season for the writing, and the cast of characters. It was probably Idol at it's height, that one last gasp of Livejournal before the site started it's decline.

(and *far* less drama than Season 4!!)

[bsgsix]

That's a really great way to put that season, especially since I was honored to take part in it, barely recall it (amnesia is fun!), but know I made some amazing friends from it. Those cliques were honestly terrible, and I'm not - super-close to some of those people. But I avoided that nonsense and wrote, and I wrote for 20 weeks before I had to leave for all those surgeries. Then, to be brought back in for Champions? A true honor. It was Idol at its height, as well as LJ. You're absolutely right about that. Those were the damn days.

Change is good, obviously. But wow. What a look back.

[kehlen.livejournal.com]

I will not argue with you about the quality of writing in that season (I cannot, I was not there).

I merely said how rumours influenced a newbie like me :)

[kehlen.livejournal.com]

I have already mentioned it, but personally, I avoid poll results - I don't look at them after I have voted, and nor do I check them after the week is out. It adds a level of stress I simply don't need.

In earlier seasons, I did check my standing, both before and after deadline, then just after, and this season, not at all, and I feel much better for it.

And I also keep as far away from cliques and 'political' voting as I can.

The only thing I do sometimes is vote for people I really like during the season when I like their entry less than usual, to give them a chance. :)