Green Room - Week 11 - Day 2

[clauderainsrm.livejournal.com]

There is a Second Chance poll happening right now: http://therealljidol.livejournal.com/899509.html so make sure to check it out and help 2 of the 3 of them get back into the competition!

We also have the Topic for the main competition: http://therealljidol.livejournal.com/898794.html and a Work Room: http://therealljidol.livejournal.com/898968.html

and of course, another Trump victory. (this time in Nevada)

I'm starting to think that the GOP isn't going to stop this guy. Not sure if anyone can...

The gold plated bathroom fixture supply companies are going to be sending bids in to redo the White House any time now!!

Comments

[theun4givables.livejournal.com]

The entire thing with Trump scares the fuck out of me. I don't get it. I really, really don't get it.

[kathrynrose.livejournal.com]

It baffles me, but not as much as it makes me deeply sad, also disgusted. And embarrassed.

[kathrynrose.livejournal.com]

I'm starting to think that the GOP isn't going to stop this guy. Not sure if anyone can...

Because he made a pact with the devil.

Also, first. second

[theun4givables.livejournal.com]

Pact with the Devil sounds about right, yeah.

[bleodswean.livejournal.com]

I'm here to support my boy, Trump. And I know this is a warcry to many online...and I don't really want a brawl, especially a political one *shudder* but in the interest of hearing a different perspective....

We own our own company. It's a family business and we employ a relative. And we work very, very, very hard. We dutifully pay HUGE amounts of taxes every quarter. We don't get paid time off or retirement or health bennies. Our benefit, and it is what makes it all worthwhile, is that we are our own bosses and for two pretty wild and independent personalities, that's worth all the gold in the Sierra Nevadas, believe me.

ObamaCare FUCKED us royally. And we didn't even get a chance to "fake it". It's not getting better, it's getting much worse and we still are paying out each month as though we're bleeding money. And we wouldn't actually mind it that much if we knew of others, less fortunate, who are benefiting, but we haven't heard from a single one. Rich, poor, and middling, no one seems to be doing better with ObamaCare. So, there's that.

We keep company with others who are self-employed and they are all backing Trump regardless of income, race, religion, or creed. And believe me, as a group we encompass diversity. It's because of his business acumen. He knows how to run a business and we know how to run a business and it's a trust thing.

We are also first and second generation Americans whose relatives went through hell and highwater to get here, but they came through legal channels and it wasn't easy. They had to learn English and they had to say goodbye to their homelands and they had to work hard to achieve and accomplish a modicum of comfort in the New World. Whether its laudable or not, none of them accepted government financial aid. And most of them became policeman, firemen, and military men and women.

I think many Americans have simply lost faith in the professional politician. They seem to be out of touch with those of us who are working, raising children, paying for college, paying the insurance premiums, joining the service. Sure, it's wonderful to espouse platitudes, but even those lofty aspirations don't seem to be reality anymore, they are feel-good sound bites that don't seem to be making differences in anyone's lives.

Us Trumpians could be ridiculously off base, but the feeling right now is one of change for the better. Running the country as though it were a business. We're tired of the glad-handing and back-slapping of those who just don't seem to get the day-to-day experience of the country.

[bleodswean.livejournal.com]

And....just to make things more complicated. We are HUMONGOUS supporters of gay marriage and pro-choice and scrutinizing police brutality. (Which we know firsthand is real and frightening and just no no no.) But we don't believe that the massive accomplishments this country has achieved in regards to some of these issues are going to be reversed. There are too many human beings who have become self-actualized for that to happen in this century.

[whipchick.livejournal.com]

I'm doing better with Obamacare. It's the first time in my life I've been able to 1) go to the doctor when I am seriously ill and 2) get treatment without weeping about how I'm going to pay for it.

I don't like that the system forces us to still benefit profit-mongering insurance companies. I don't like that we pay higher drug prices than every other nation because senators have been bought and paid for by pharmaceuticals. But we aren't getting single payer any time soon.

[thistle-verse.livejournal.com]

I think my main, genuine question is this, and you know that I adore you:

Is all that worth the genuine filth he's putting out? The deningration of women, of immigrants, of Muslims? The scary way he seems unable to work with people truly different and compromise? What sounds to me like war-mongering?

There's nothing there in your own priorities that I have a problem with. But your candidate is so vile. So awful and unthoughtful and ugly to other people. It is his very nature that makes it so hard for me to understand why you, someone so thoughtful and warm and lovely, could possibly support him.

Maybe there isn't an answer, and I'm probably even less interested in a deep political debate than you are. I'm all tapped out already this election cycle. It's been an ugly one all around.

[murielle.livejournal.com]

As an outsider I should probably keep quiet. As someone who knows very much less about politics than one should, I should most definitely keep quiet. But whatever.

I have enjoyed watching Trump. He is entertaining. I have no idea what kind of president he would make. One thing is sure, and if for no other reason he serves a great purpose, no one owns him, and because of that he can say whatever he wants, and that is so refreshing. Another thing I like about him is he doesn't give a hoot about political correctness, something that started out to make us more sensitive to others but has turned into a monster that has trampled the freedom of speech into the dust. I may not always like what he says, but it thrills me that at last someone is saying what he thinks. But that goes back to him not being owned by anyone.

Will he make it to the White House? Who knows. Will he do any good for the country? Who knows. One thing is for sure, the other politicians should be paying very close attention to the fact that he is getting the support of the people and try to figure out why he's doing so well. People are hurt. People are angry. People feel betrayed by those they have trusted. And if anyone wants the top job in your country they'd be wise to pay attention to that.

There is a lot of hate and arrogance out there toward Trump's supporters. I actually heard someone on an American news program say that his supporters were uneducated. What utter rot!

I'll tell you something else I'd rather have Trump running my country than what we've got.

[lrig-rorrim.livejournal.com]

I think the fundamental disconnect for me comes in your last paragraph - "Running the country as though it were a business." This, to me, sounds like something one should strive not to do. Ever.

The role of a government isn't to turn a profit. It's to serve its citizens. In the model of government as business, the public good of services is outweighed by how much profit is being made, and money isn't a good indicator of how well our most vulnerable citizens are being cared for. I want a government that is run like a government - like an entity that is for the public good, not like something in the private sector. In fact, I see the failings of the Affordable Care Act (aka Obamacare) - which I have briefly been on, and did find a nightmare to deal with - to be because it was in fact, the government being run like a business. The U.S. government effectively went into a business partnership with the insurance industry. It's a profit-minded model, that aims to make sure all citizens are covered - at their expense, with certain limitations upon industry - and imposes fines and fees if they're not. Now, the ACA did all kinds of good things which I do support, but the way actually having to get coverage was implemented made it all fall down.

And "glad-handing" and "back-slapping" are terms I associate with back-room business deals, which is a lot of what politics looks like. I want less business (and money) in my politics, period. Not more.

[kickthehobbit.livejournal.com]

My partner and I also run our own business. We have one employee, we're looking to expand to more.

We will not be voting for Trump. He is a registered Democrat, I am a registered Independent, and we will both be voting straight Dem in the fall, regardless of who gets the party nom, because to us, it is the only morally sound choice to make.

The Affordable Care Act saved my ass, when my insurance was canceled in December. I was able to re-enroll in a different plan at similar cost without a lapse in coverage and without having to pay for COBRA (which I priced out and which was ludicrous for the poor coverage it gave).

The ACA also means that my roommate, who has been struggling with bipolar disorder since she was in her late teens, can finally afford medication and therapy, and is working toward a point where she can reliably hold down a job and have a normal life, not crippled by MI.

But that's not what you want to hear.

I don't know that many people in Idol know this, because I am quiet about it, but I am Latina. More specifically, I am Chicana. My grandparents came over from Mexico, and worked their way up. My grandfather worked in the mines at Alta until his health gave out and he was no longer able to. He died before he could formally retire. My grandmother was a cleaning lady and later worked in a lunchroom. She wasn't able to retire until she was 80, and she still does odd jobs (doing cleaning for her parish priest, among other things) because the money she gets from Social Security isn't enough to cover her bills.

We have been poor as far back as I can remember. My parents, combined, made just above the poverty line until I was out of high school. We qualified for different forms of assistance, and we never took it, because of what I now recognize as pride, and an unwillingness to admit that we needed help.

My father was in the military. A good number of my friends from high school were in the military. We've all been through (or are going to) college. We've all bootstrapped our way to the top and made it out without student loan debt. Most of us, coming out of Utah, do not trust "professional politicians".

None of us are supporting Trump.

How do you reconcile what someone has said—not the "media frenzy" around them, what they have actually said, at their rallies and during their debates—how do you reconcile the racist nonsense they have spouted with the policies that they claim they will implement? If you say, "No, they're not actually racist", then are they doing what they are doing for attention? Whose attention is that, and why do they want it? How, then, do you separate what they have said (to get attention) from what they will actually do once they are in office?

Either you have to say, "It's all for attention", and trust that you do not know what they will do once they are in office, or you have to say, "They actually believe this" and think that they will make a good-faith effort to keep their campaign promises.

Regardless: who is standing with you? Are they people you would want on your side? Personally, I would rather not associate with racists, but that might be my own bias showing. "Make America Great Again" seems to have morphed into this strange idea that being "great" is being "white", and the support of prominent Klansmen certainly does nothing to refute that idea.

I do not trust someone who spouts racist rhetoric, who brutally raped and assaulted his wife, who has ruined most of their business ventures and whose only real skill seems to be "getting attention" (for better or worse!) to run the country.

I find it strange that you do.

[talon.livejournal.com]

Populism at its core! It's frequently interesting how close Bernie and Trump supporters are. It really does harken to the horseshoe theory of politics.

[prog-schlock.livejournal.com]

ObamaCare FUCKED us royally. And we didn't even get a chance to "fake it". It's not getting better, it's getting much worse and we still are paying out each month as though we're bleeding money. And we wouldn't actually mind it that much if we knew of others, less fortunate, who are benefiting, but we haven't heard from a single one. Rich, poor, and middling, no one seems to be doing better with ObamaCare. So, there's that.

Now that you've read several examples here of how the ACA has helped specific members of this community get health care where they couldn't previously get it, has your opinion on this changed? Would you be content with a system that helped your business but deprived the people here of care?

Also, what plan (specific or otherwise) has Trump (or any of the repeal and replace people) proposed that will stop screwing your company but will allow people like our friends here at LJI to maintain their health care?

It seems to me that a Single Payer Health plan would be the one that would most specifically benefit both your business and the various individuals here who didn't have coverage before that, in which case Sanders might be a candidate that you should consider (https://berniesanders.com/medicareforall/).

[dmousey.livejournal.com]

I am. I hadn't been able to afford insurance for at least six years. Now am enrolled.

[favoritebean.livejournal.com]

I wanted to stop in to say thank you for stating in full your reasons for supporting Trump. I know that there has already been an ACA discussion further down in the thread, so I won't touch on this.

I am curious as to what separates Trump from say Rubio and other GOP members? Is it because they are lifelong politicians?

For me and my family, the things that Trump has gone on air to say is very dangerous, and I have watched a lot of friends pool their support into Trump, ignoring the fact that they have friends who follow the ways of Islam, friends who are women, POC and the like.

While it is likely that Trump doesn't believe much of what he has been saying, and is merely trying to take a populist approach to gaining the nomination, I honestly can't help but find myself wary of anyone who wants to side with a candidate who has uttered so many hateful phrases towards so many of the country's constituents.

Do you dismiss the racist and sexist remarks? In that regard, I know that nearly no candidate is clean when it comes to racism. One merely has to look at previous voting records and business practices.

I hope you'll take a bit of time to answer, I know I'm late to the debate party. I am just honestly curious, since I read you are changing parties to vote, how these other things come into it.

[prog-schlock.livejournal.com]

I'd like to make an unsupported incendiary comment here with absolute conviction and subtle innuendos about the intelligence of anyone who disagrees with it.

This is how we do politics in America, right?

[clauderainsrm.livejournal.com]

*insert angry retort here, accusing you of being in the pocket of special interests*

[kickthehobbit.livejournal.com]

Trump frightens me. Discovering that friends of mine support him has been one of the worst parts of this election cycle. Finding out that someone I like and respect is, if at least not openly racist, supportive of someone who is spouting racist nonsense to get into office (and excusing it as being something that he's doing to "get attention"—from whom, I wonder?), is a little...

I stay silent about politics largely because they affect me personally far more often than I am comfortable with. This is one of those times. I almost feel like I should say something—because I am Chicana, and I can't stand what has been said, by all of the Republican candidates (but especially Trump) at this point, about my people.

Other people are able to shrug it off and go, "it's for the attention!", and I have to wonder what it means with respect to me and my family—how they must think of me, if dismissing where I come from is something that can be done "for attention", and be all right.

Historically, I know what they would say. It's something I heard fairly frequently, growing up in a community in which the debate over immigration was always in the foreground—"oh, but you're not one of those Mexicans": because I'm fluent in English, because I'm educated, because how I look and dress and sound tells those that are so eager to deport us otherwise that I must not be a part of the same group they are quick to decry as being unwashed, uneducated, and unwelcome in the US.

I's another uncomfortable truth, too: at the end of the day, if I say or do something they don't like, they will dismiss me as being the angry Latina woman, who can't help it, because it's "in her blood", if they decide what to address what I've said at all.

I envy others for being able to treat it as entertainment. It's not all thought exercises and "spirited political discussion", for me—it's another person on the long list of people who think, publicly or privately, that people like me shouldn't exist, or at least not where they can see us.

It's another quiet reminder that no matter how educated I am, no matter how much I contribute, someone is going to see my last name and the color of my skin and ask where I am from, and did my parents come here legally? That they are going to lean forward, in their chair, and ask: was Spanish the primary language in my house, and did my parents get welfare?

I am never going to be separated from my heritage, and I don't want to be. I wish I could be separated from the racist baggage that comes along with it, but with every Trump victory, with every person that takes him seriously, that says he's only doing it "for attention", I feel the distance between it and myself shrink just a bit more.

I have never been ashamed to be Chicana. I am appalled to see how it has become a talking point, over the last several years, to the point we're at now, where someone campaigning for president can say that myself and people like me are "rapists and drug dealers" (when he himself is a rapist!) and be met with resounding applause.

I'm terrified of what this means for me and mine. I have already seen a spike in racist incidents in my community. I'm afraid of what it will mean, if Trump does get the nomination. Already there's been an uptick in, "you're not like those Mexicans...", and I am frightened of what it will mean when they discover that yes, I am one of them.

It is so strange to live in a world where people can debate the terrible things that have been said about my community as though discussing the weather. As though it doesn't really affect anyone, as though it's a philosophical discussion. Reading the threads here, I feel almost weirdly unwelcome—because what is an abstract for so many people here is a lived reality for me.

[murielle.livejournal.com]

It is hard not to take this personally. I get that. I normally stay away from political discussions because I tend to take things very personally, myself. I'm trying to be more objective these days, to disengage my emotions, and just discuss. That said, I feel absolutely horrible that this discussion is hurting you, because I can see that it is. I am sorry for that, for my part in hurting you.

I don't consider myself a racist. But I am white, and I have been told many times that just by being white I am by default a racist.

Like many, many people...peoples...have said, I can't do anything about the color of my skin, so I try to work on my attitude.

Your feelings matter to me. I don't want to hurt you or anyone. I am truly sorry.

Idol

[clauderainsrm.livejournal.com]

This hasn't come up in awhile, but just in case it does, I want to say this:

LJ Idol is open to writers.

Not writers who think _____. Or don't think _____.

You could believe in your heart something that I think is absolutely repugnant, and if you can write - you are welcome here. (If you start shit, that can change. But we'll deal that when we come to it)

It doesn't matter if you agree with each other. It doesn't even matter if you *like* each other.

You don't even have to like me! There have certainly been people who, over the years, have not.

LJ Idol is open to you anyway.

So stay civil (and everyone here has been doing a great job of that so far) with each other - and always remember that there *is* a place here for everyone who is willing to write their ass off.

The only REAL enemy here is me!!

[prog-schlock.livejournal.com]

"Dear Trump Fans, So You Want Someone to 'Tell It Like It Is?' Well here you go." (http://www.theblaze.com/contributions/dear-trump-fan-so-you-want-someone-to-tell-it-like-it-is-ok-here-you-go/)

[kickthehobbit.livejournal.com]

Oh God, Matt Walsh. Well, even a stopped clock...

[ryl.livejournal.com]

The only interest I have in Trump is watching the Republican party try in vain to stop his popularity. They're failing so badly I almost feel sorry for them.

Honestly, at this point I'm more interested in stopping NC Gov. Pat McCrory who doesn't think transgender people should be allowed to use the bathroom that corresponds to their gender identity (http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/politics-government/article61786967.html). I actually met him briefly when he was campaigning the last time and I really hope he comes through Hippy Hollow again so I can tell him that he's a transphobic hateful ignoramus who's destroyed the educational system in this state and not only will I not vote for him, I wouldn't spit on him if he's on fire. *pant pant*

Trump I'd spit on, just for the hell of it.

[anyonesghost.livejournal.com]

I've heard the "he's just playing for the base" theory.
I've heard people say, "he tells it like it is."
I've heard people say, "he's not a politician."
All within the same breath, usually.

What never quite clicks: if he's saying stuff just to get elected, then he's a politician. Maybe one of the most consummate politicians ever. He is, quite literally, the opposite of what you think he is. And if he's speaking gospel truth, then he's a horrifying human being, and it scares me to have him representing the U.S. to the world. Maybe he doesn't believe it, but he's inciting the mob to rally to it. Does he really think there are no consequences for speaking in public?

Maybe it won't be as bad as is feared. (Lord knows I knew a lot of people afraid of, yes, "reverse slavery" when Obama took office. Never mind that the opposite of slavery is "Freedom," not "enslave white people."). But all I have to go on is television, casinos that went bust, and hate speech. If he had fantastic policies, I might be mollified. I don't know what his policies are, other than, "Better than the next guy," and "a wall," and "bomb the shit out of them." None of those speak to me. What else has he got? Can we find out before the general election, please?

(Disclaimer: all the candidates left depress me, honestly, so it's not like I'm pushing an alternate platform, besides, "lesser evil.")

[kickthehobbit.livejournal.com]

Thisthisthisthisthis.

There is so very little to go on, and nothing has been promised that is not horrifying in some way.

[dmousey.livejournal.com]

( raises hand ) Bernie?

[clauderainsrm.livejournal.com]

Bernie what?

nobody's going to read this :(

[xo-kizzy-xo.livejournal.com]

I followed this thread all day yesterday and didn't get a chance to chime in except for my one lonely reply upthread. Lots of stuff to think about here. I've never been overly political, so it's interesting to me to see why people vote the way they do and who they vote for and how their interests align with whoever's running.

A couple of general things:

1. I'm a second generation American whose grandparents and parents all had their own businesses. Everybody worked themselves to the bone to put food on the table and a roof over everybody's head. Whatever $ they saved and invested was the result of THEIR work, nobody else's. As somebody in my family once said, "It's easy to be a Democrat when you're younger and don't own much. Once you're a business owner or a homeowner, you begin to understand Republicans." Or words to that effect. Fiscal conservatism, in other words. The Republican party in those years was a completely different animal than the clusterfuck it is now.

2. I don't think people intend to be more conservative the older they become -- it's a byproduct of finally realizing all the crap that's out there and having the ability to cut through it to get the the essential points. Because of that, one does have the desire for everything and everybody to be pragmatic. It doesn't always work that way, though.

3. In my neck of the woods I think there may be more Trump supporters than I care to admit. They're very much underground for obvious reasons. The younger crowd are literally stopping short of kowtowing to Sanders. The rest of us are in that no-person's land of "Should we vote for Hillary or not?"

RE: nobody's going to read this :(

[anyonesghost.livejournal.com]

I think the quote in my family was, "If you're 18 and a Republican, you have no heart. If you're 40 and a Democrat, you have no brain."

(Registered Independent, which I can only assume means I have no soul.)

[lordrexfear.livejournal.com]

Oh no actual political talk?!?

RUN!