Work Room - Week 14

[clauderainsrm.livejournal.com]

As I said in the new topic thread http://therealljidol.livejournal.com/754594.html I decided to change things up for a couple reasons.

One of them is I thought there was such a great deal of potential in the topic idea - and a lot of potentially fascinating paths to take with it.

The other is that it's a brand new idea that I am running with.

Which is something that came up this week.

I was asked, by a few people, about the rules of "What is allowed for an entry" when it comes to re-using old/pre-existing material.

Now, we've had this come up before - with people wanting to rework an old entry and after thinking about it, I realized that there really isn't any way for us to KNOW that you had done it, unless we happened to be familiar with every single piece of your work. Which wasn't likely.

On the other hand, knowing that everyone else was working their butt off to produce new work - the fact that the person doing it would *know* that they hadn't put in the effort, that would be enough to make them want to do the same.

That self-policing has worked for 8 seasons plus two mini seasons. Never really became a problem. People would rework something, but they would make sure that enough effort was put into it that it became something new or at very least improved it to the point that it was noticeable. (usually proving side by side examples)

Last week we had a case of someone simply re-posting something from a few years ago.

Based on the rules, as they stand, it's OK. Because of what I just said.

But based on the emails I've received, I'm not the only one who thinks that it's not cool.

Granted, I have a different take. Those people who contacted me think it's cheating the system by not working as hard as everyone else.

I think it's cheating yourself out of the experience.

No one is in trouble, and I'm certainly not going to go around pointing fingers. NOR SHOULD ANY OF YOU. Because nothing wrong was done. Or, if it was, it wasn't on purpose...

BUT I want to make sure everyone is on the same page with this. Part of the experience of Idol is producing something new every week. (Like I did with the topic! See, it all ties together)

It's something that I love seeing, and I hope that you feel the same way.

***

So, what ideas do you have for the topic?

Comments

[theun4givables.livejournal.com]

I have had a couple of immediate scenes spring to mind but I'm not sure which ones --

Oh never mind. I just got a pretty strong flash of a scene that ties into my piece last week, so I think I have an idea.

(Yes, I just pretend-interrupted myself as the thought hit me, don't judge me, it's the internet, etc etc).

As for the "posting an old thing and using it for Idol," meh? I mean, I'm more or less on the same page as Gary -- I'd feel like I cheated myself out of the experience if I did something like that. It's why I try hard not to rehash the same scenes for Idol -- though when I do, I always rewrite the scene in question. This season that's been less of a concern, considering all of the nonfiction stuff I've needed to purge, lately.

Also, hellooooo Work Room. :D I am somehow first even with this novel of a comment! :3

[n3m3sis43.livejournal.com]

Bwahahaha, I pretend-interrupt myself all the time. I'm judging you so hard.

[watching-ships.livejournal.com]

I'm new to idol and this has been a great way for me to take ideas that were barely formed and work them out in a different way. No one has been reading my writing on a regular basis (fiction and creative non-fiction that doesn't appear on my blog) since I was in college. It's been great to get the feedback and just know that someone else is reading it.

As for the topic, I've got a couple ideas, and my knee-jerk reaction is usually the one I come back around to in the end. Over thinking rarely yields a better idea for me.

[roina-arwen.livejournal.com]

I have no ideas yet. I usually have to sleep on it.

But on the plus side, I do have a nifty icon...

[rswndrlst.livejournal.com]

confessions for the hot pink armchair nice!

(This makes me think of the great indie film The Puffy Chair)

[oxymoron67.livejournal.com]

I have a few "Catholic confessional" stories. I may try one of them.

It'll be a break from the "Tales from the Classroom" streak I've been on.

[xo-kizzy-xo.livejournal.com]

How my mind is working at this very moment:

~ Gary's explanation about the KGB story, which
~ leads me to think of this idea very literally, which
~ causes me to roll my eyes because chairs and other pieces of furniture literally DON'T speak, which
~ leads to the most obvious scenario of placing a person in said chair, which
~ leads me to think "Gah, you've spent too much imagination today trying to dream up Fourth Of July cupcake platters", which
~ has absolutely nothing to do with the topic.

Maybe I should sleep on it :p

[kathrynrose.livejournal.com]

LOL. Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me if the furniture at lrig_rorrim's spoke.

Also it could be a cool story if the furniture *did* speak.

My initial thoughts -

- Confession from the Chair (of the Board)
- Confession from the therapist sitting in a chair as opposed to the therapee on the couch
- Confession from the electric chair
- Open Confession sitting face-to-face instead of behind a screen.

- What sins/crimes would a chair confess?

- My favorite confession (GoT season 2 spoiler)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4B-PysR_4s

[alexpgp.livejournal.com]

Just a few thoughts on working hard and reusing material...

How hard one works is always going to be a subjective call, which makes it a weak criterion for judging the worth of a post. Speaking of my own experience and confining myself to what I write for Idol, there have been weeks when I've expended what I think is a lot of effort to create a post. Then, too, there have been weeks when my post sort of "wrote itself." Both posts have equal weight, no?

As far as reusing one's own material, I don't particularly see that as a violation of the spirit of the competition, because if you've taken the trouble to create something on your own, outside the scope of Idol, that later turns out to be "good enough" (in one's own opinion) to use in Idol, then I really don't see the problem. In the final analysis, the writer did the work; the fact that it was done earlier, with no expectation that text would be used competitively, is immaterial in my opinion.

That said, I agree with Gary that using old material verbatim is cheating yourself out of the experience. In any event, I feel that in the end, any Idoler who routinely reuses old material without at least reworking it in some fundamental way runs a serious risk of invoking the ire of voters.

Cheers...

[waltzmatildah.livejournal.com]

Re: using prewritten material.

I'm not sure if it was me (if it wasn't specifically, the it could have been), but I can absolutely say I don't feel like I cheated myself out of anything!

The only reason I did it was because PhD deadline trumps Idol, every time. And I freaking worked my butt off this week (even my idol entry was a re-worked and edited version - there was no verbatim copying, I can assure everyone).

So yeah, it might have been me (it could have been me) and I make no apologies for it. With no byes left it was edit something already written, or bow out. They were my only options and as far as I knew, it was okay (and no one said anything to me even though I posted super early) so... *shrug*

[flipflop-diva.livejournal.com]

FWIW, I don't think it was you? (I mean, I don't know, but it makes it sound like it was something already posted — maybe even for a previous season of Idol — not just already written.) So I don't think you'd have anything to feel bad about anyway <333

[anyonesghost.livejournal.com]

I am ... drawing a complete blank.
This is new ...

ETA: On old material .... it's only old the second time you read it. I'm guessing there are some fantastic entries from Idol Days Of Yore that I'll never see, but they would be new to me.

That said, I try to do something different every time, so a serial reuser does short change their own imagination.

[unmowngrass.livejournal.com]

Good point.

[n3m3sis43.livejournal.com]

I have, due to my unfortunate tendency this season to start a piece and never finish it, a whole slew of half-baked ideas and pieces that I'd consider reworking for a later topic. I mean, I wrote them for Idol, and um... I mean, half-baked is really being pretty generous.

Also, what I am considering writing this week is a scene I have written before but I'd be ripping apart and making it into what it needs to be. People who have had me friended for a while might recognize it, but it won't be the same piece or I won't post it. Actually, there is a good chance I won't post it anyway, because I have misgivings about the whole idea.

For one, a literal interrogation scene? Really, me?

So, um, if I drop out within the next week, you will know that I have come to my senses, far too late to write something else.

*grumblegrumble stupid brain*

[eternal-ot.livejournal.com]

"literal interrogation scene" sounds cool to me!

[joyfulfeather.livejournal.com]

Hn. I wrote an entry last week that was about the same incident from my childhood as I'd written about back in season 7. I realized the repeat after I'd finished the new post, so it definitely wasn't a copy/paste. I still had to debate a lot whether to post the new entry or try to come up with a new idea (which seemed unlikely, given my mental/emotional state and amount of time remaining). I angsted about it, but I went ahead and used the new entry in the end. As iffy as I felt about that, I can't imagine copy/pasting an entry wholesale. I've always felt like the game is about creating new content.

As for the new topic, nothing has sprung immediately to mind (other than Natasha in the MCU).

One thought: "chair" could mean someone who is used or ignored -- treated like a piece of furniture.

[n3m3sis43.livejournal.com]

Natasha was one of the first things I thought of. XD

[mstrobel.livejournal.com]

Oh I didn't realise it was new topic day!

Last night one of the women in my class pierced my ears :D Like, in the studio with our teacher taking photos. I was going to get them pierced in Vegas, and this came up when we were all having dinner (at Hooters!) and my classmate who pierced them last night told me that she'd do them for me, so yay :D

[kehlen-crow.livejournal.com]

It's a bit not good when the first thing that comes up when you Google the topic is the LJ post with it :-)

[unmowngrass.livejournal.com]

Haha!

[alycewilson.livejournal.com]

In my case, I think it would be next to impossible to recycle something I'd previously written for an LJ topic, because they tend to be so unusual! But I agree with others above that I challenge myself to write something new every week.

I have noticed in the past that, when people mention in their posting that they are reposting a piece they'd already written, they tend to suffer in the polls. Perhaps there was a backlash because this person hadn't done that? (I'm assuming).

[swirlsofblue.livejournal.com]

One thing I've found intriguing with this competition is the allowance for (and sometimes encouragement of) tactical behaviour. At first I found it daunting, but as time has passed I've really enjoyed the tactical aspect (even if I haven't really employed any tactics myself beyond trying to get the entry done as early as possible (but even that, in other comps I've been in all entries have had to be revealed at the same time)).

It adds a brilliant dimension, and makes it more than a writing competition, but also a community of people helping and encouraging each other in our writing and other life stuff. Especially the stuff with special powers and gift byes, and generally seeing people support each other is wonderful.

Voting is allowed to be discussed, I've even seen people say they'll vote if people do such and such (which I still don't think should be allowed), this competition is so open, and it does result in some bad stuff, but a lot more good stuff (like as we're allowed to be open, rec posts are allowed as they wouldn't be in other comps I've been in).

Anyway I'm off on a tangent. The posting an already existing piece could be considered a tactical maneouvre and I think as it isn't against the rules it should be okay. Also I think a reworked entry is a new entry.

Having said that, I think there's something wrong if it's a previous LJ Idol entry. Because every entry has had effort expended on it, whenever it was written, but if it's already been used in the competition, then that effort has already been 'paid off' as it were. So that's different.

Also if it's done repeatedly, that's also wrong. But if it's not against the rules, then it's up to the voters to decide.

If too many tactics are used at that point the core question becomes, 'why are you in the competition?' if it's just to get as far as possible by any means necessary what's the point? If it's not about getting there on writing merit but on tactics, it's not really winning anything.

Also: confession from a chair can also be the concept of being asked to do the impossible.

[n3m3sis43.livejournal.com]

I agree with you on all of this. I played one full season before this, and I stayed in pretty long, and by the time we were near the end, there were a lot of tactics in play. I will be the first to admit that if it were based purely on writing ability, I might not have made it as far as I did.

(This is not false modesty. You should see some of the stuff I produced that season.)

On the other hand, that season, I came up with interesting takes on the topic, tried new things, rolled with the punches pretty well, etc. So, did I deserve to get as far as I did even if I wasn't one of the top X best writers? Maybe, maybe not.

There were other people that made it as far as I did who were very talented. Many of them also used tactics to get that far. There were many talented people who didn't make it as far.

I think I'm a better writer now than I was that season, but I also think I won't make it anywhere near as far. I have lost a lot of the openness and sense of adventure I had that first season I played. So, like you, I think there are a lot of dimensions to the game, and I like that it's not just about who is the best writer.

Who is the best writer is pretty subjective, anyway, isn't it?

[ryl.livejournal.com]

The explanation of where you got the topic reminded me of something from the Governor's School Orchestra way back in the last century. (While I'm at it, you damn kids better get off my lawn!)

We were playing the first movement from Shostakovitch's 5th Symphony which is about the fear people in Russia felt during the Stalin years. The cello instructor, to get us in the mood of the piece, sternly told us every day: "Love your mother? No love your mother! Love KGB!"

I put this out there so others can use it if they wish.

[whipchick.livejournal.com]

That is awesome.

[eternal-ot.livejournal.com]

My mind immediately went to my first story from last week since it has a confession ...and then I read the remaining post..and *duh*..well hope the brain comes up with something else..the second thing that's hovering is the literal interpretation and that's what most of us are already thinking about.

[ryl.livejournal.com]

I just had another idea. In Dave Barry's Book of Bad Songs he talks about Neil Young's song "I Am I Said" and quotes the lyrics:

I am, I said
To no one there
And no one heard at all
Not even the chair

[eternal-ot.livejournal.com]

Wow!

[alephz.livejournal.com]

I'm mostly just sad 'cause I don't want to re-use material, to make one point or another, with slightly different rhetorical targets, etc...

But hot dang I wish I'd've saved the entry from "No True Scotsman" for this'n. I was so excited for a hot second 'cause a version of that entry came straight into my head when I read the prompt and then I remembered I'd already, more or less, done it.

Double complaint RE: not sure what to do and also re-use.

[whipchick.livejournal.com]

Write it again from another character's POV?

[whipchick.livejournal.com]

I used to adjudicate high school theatre competitions. There was a 5-minute time limit, and a stopwatch. Actors got ten seconds' grace, and past that, only a judge's intervention could save you--like, if the audience had been laughing or clapping so hard the actors had to wait before speaking again.

When I first started judging, I felt bad for good scenes that went over, not for audience response but just over. Sometimes I'd intervene and save them anyway, because the scene was good and they'd clearly worked hard.

One day, another judge said, "Finishing on time is part of the competition. The other actors all used rehearsal time cutting the scripts, making sure they ran on time, and practicing their pacing. You're rewarding the over-timers for ignoring part of the competition that everyone else spent time on."

Idol has a weekly prompt. Sometimes I love it. Sometimes I question Gary's sanity. (Well, I always question Gary's sanity.) But the contest is pretty clearly, "write to the prompt." Contestants care about that enough to strongly give their opinion on prompt quality. They care enough to agonize in the Work Room about how to interpret the prompt.

Maybe the "maraschino cherry" prompt reminds you of the color of Aunt Edna's lipstick and you end up writing a whole essay about her husband Uncle Harry and how he used to whittle wooden dogs on the porch. And at the last minute you realize, "shit, the prompt!" and squeeze in Uncle Harry drinking a Shirley Temple between whittles. Maybe you name your spaceship "The Virgin" and hope we'll all make the connection. But you observed the prompt, that everyone else is also observing, and you align yourself with a common origin. We're all at the same starting point.

Getting a piece written to deadline is part of the competition. Maybe it's a half-finished piece that's been kicking around in your brain, and the deadline is a good way to get it out. Maybe it's an idea on a napkin from when you were in Grade Six and the teacher told you to please not write any more scary monster stories, they were bothering the other children (lrig_rorrim and rattsu, I'm looking at you). Maybe it's a revision of a piece you thought about posting before but didn't. All of those are still taking your best swing at the prompt.

Copy-pasting a previously-written, previously-posted piece, not written during the duration of the current competition, is treating the competition as if it's "The-Best-Work-On-Your-Hard-Drive Vs. Other-People's-One-Week-Drafts Idol."

As far as I know, there is no official "rule" that forbids copy-pasting previously-posted or previously-written material. There's also no rule that forbids plagiarism, but I'm too proud to do that, either.

I'm pretty sure the only formal rule around here is "Don't be an asshole." Starting a few feet before the finish and saying it's equivalent to running as fast as everyone else and you should be judged on the same criteria, comes pretty close to breaking that rule.

[penpusher.livejournal.com]

Hey! We were thinking the same thing and posting the same basic concept at almost the same time!

[penpusher.livejournal.com]

This is a pretty fascinating discussion, and there are valuable points all over. But I do want to address something that I don't think has been examined quite as thoroughly.

As a first time LJ Idoler, I really had no idea what to expect. But the only thing I thought was certain was that when we received a topic, we would write something on, near or nothing like that topic, fresh and new, based on the time frame of that week.

I assumed that the time frame of the writing was going to play a part in the outcome of that week's poll. Of course, if you are using something you wrote before Idol, the pressure of creating something within the time restrictions set for that week falls away. I figured part of the point is a) you don't know the topic until it is revealed and then b) you only have this much time to make sense of it and produce something. Time is part of the judging process.

We all are living lives offline so we all have unique and sometimes very challenging issues to negotiate while we do this (in my case, I only got to comment to a handful of the entries because of some job pressures). So, to me, the nagging undercurrent of someone recycling an entry would serve to tick, tick, tick those that don't, off.

[joyfulfeather.livejournal.com]

That made me think of Iron Chef. Apparently in reality the chefs do find out the ingredient early, so that they can plan what they're going to do -- but they only have the allotted time in which to do it. They can't prepare something beforehand and bring it out at the competition. I think they get marks for creativity, too, so serving something they regularly serve in their restaurants is going to get dinged.

Confessions From the Chair - Exercise

[whipchick.livejournal.com]

Hilary Mantel (Wolf Hall) talks about a great writing exercise in this article from the New Yorker by Larissa MacFarquhar. It's on page 6, and I'm quoting the relevant part here, but the article is a wonderful insight into Mantel's writing process and I recommend it if you have time (it's thinky reading).

"When she’s starting a new book, she needs to feel her way inside the characters, to know what it’s like to be them. There is a trick she uses sometimes, which another writer taught her. Sit quietly and withdraw your attention from the room you’re in until you’re focussed inside your mind. Imagine a chair and invite your character to come and sit in it; once he is comfortable, you may ask him questions. She tried this for the first time when she was writing “The Giant, O’Brien”: the giant came in, but, before sitting down in the chair, he bent down and tested it, to see if it would take his weight. On that occasion, she never got any further, because she was so excited that she punched the air and shouted “Yes!” But from then on she could imagine herself in the giant’s body."

Great stuff :) And a place to take the prompt where you can go anywhere!

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2012/10/15/121015fa_fact_macfarquhar?currentPage=1

Re: Confessions From the Chair - Exercise

[theun4givables.livejournal.com]

Okay, now I'm imagining how each of my characters would just SIT in a chair and it's amusing/pretty telling of their personalities, in general.

I love little exercises like that, though. :)

[xo-kizzy-xo.livejournal.com]

I had a hunch while reading along during my lunch break that something was amiss here...I distinctly remember posting something upthread that is no longer visible. I also distinctly remember somebody else posting something which, too, is no longer visible.

Hmmm...interesting.

[clauderainsrm.livejournal.com]

I just posted an apology about it.

I fucked up.

[agirlnamedluna.livejournal.com]

Having written so many pieces for Idol (I must be in the top 5-10 for weeks played? Even though I skipped a few seasons), there's sometimes an aspect of rehashing. Especially when I talk about personal experiences, which I tend not to do anymore, for various reasons.

However, copy/pasting an entry, that just doesn't sit right. Considering how little time I've had to *play* the game outside of the entries, this may sound weird, but there still is no effort involved at all, and then why should someone go to the next round if they just plucked something off their HD and called it a day ... that's my reaction to it. I know that the goal is to advance one more round, but the goal is also to produce and to write content. I've written like a hundred short stories for Idol maybe, and each was something required serious effort. A couple of these stories lead to novel worlds, others I need to go back and polish them for publication ... all of this wouldn't have happened if I had just not bothered.

Also: I have my idea for the new entry ... a haunted chair :D

[eternal-ot.livejournal.com]

Wooo..spooky..go for it!

[favoritebean.livejournal.com]

So my first thought on this prompt was similar to something n3m3sis43 mentioned. Entering a room, and interrogating for hours. So last night, as I was reading the prompt out loud in the car, I thought, "Are they insane? What kind of method training is this? They want their officers to lose their minds while locked inside, coaxing a confession from an inanimate object? I suppose that might make them unstoppable if they're broken."

I feel like this is a well used trope.

Then it was suggested that the confession is from each agent sent into the room. They sit in the chair, and confess some dark secret.

This seems like a very interesting idea, because that confession can be used later against the agent, should they decide the KGB is bad, and they don't want to participate in that kind of organization anymore.

This too, seems like a type of trope used in spy thrillers. Both leave the protagonist broken, however, and I'm not sure I'm eager to break a character just yet.

[n3m3sis43.livejournal.com]

Of course, my version of this scene involves breaking people. Because I'm me, and, well... I mean, most of them were already a little on the broken side. Or a lot. Or... yeah.

[aimercat.livejournal.com]

What if one has no chairs. just couches & stools. lol.

[eternal-ot.livejournal.com]

lol..then you'd have start from a scratch..Buy a chair and write the prompt..(or at least confess you did..:P)..;)