Green Room - Week 3 - Day 1

[clauderainsrm.livejournal.com]

There was a lot that happened last night. To recap: We had eliminations: http://therealljidol.livejournal.com/657879.html
And topics for both the main competition http://therealljidol.livejournal.com/658082.html and Second Chance http://therealljidol.livejournal.com/658326.html

Folks still in the main competition, or exiled into the “Sudden Death” tribe, which really isn’t all that sudden, or fatal… yet… also have to find themselves a partner to intersect with, someone that they haven’t already worked with this mini-season. Which will hopefully result in some interesting groupings, and more importantly, if someone who doesn’t tend to get a lot of attention, maybe someone who *does* who likes their work will partner with them, and help them get a little more of the spotlight!

***

Speaking of “hopes”, some randomly person, possibly off their meds, wandered into the Green Room yesterday and ordered a Grand Slam breakfast. After that though, they asked if it was the time in the season where we discussed what “Idol pitfalls” we saw folks falling into. Granted, as Exhibit A should have proved to most people – the “you can’t do that in Idol and succeed” rule is never a hard and fast one. BUT, I think most of what ends up coming up in this conversation are things that are applicable to all writing, and not merely Idolcentric.

I’ll start us off with the common ones that I’ve noticed:

- Shoe-horning in the “topic”. The topic is your starting place, but that doesn’t mean that you have to fit the word/phrase into your piece. Trying too hard just makes it feel awkward
- The “short and sweet”. I can think of a few people who can get away with it. Especially early on when people appreciate not having to read much. But make sure it doesn’t feel like a blurb from a longer piece.
- See above. But add to it that if you are writing a serial, make sure it’s a self-contained piece of the serial. If you are relying on people to remember details, or think “this was the boring part, but wait until they see what is coming NEXT WEEK!”, you might not have a next week.
Ain’t nobody got time for that.
- The “it would have been better if I had more time”… yes, everyone’s piece would probably be better, but everyone else is in the same exact boat.
- Use a beta reader when you can. If not, at least use a spell check
- Consider formatting when you write. You can have the most interesting story ever, but if it’s in one solid block of text, I’m going to have a difficult time reading it, and probably end up just going on to something else.

I’m sure you have more – what are you seeing, that people need to be careful about? What have you seen that folks are doing absolutely right?

Comments

[sweeny-todd.livejournal.com]

I agree with the formatting! there have been interesting stories that I have just stopped reading because the wall of text was just overwhelming!

[medleymisty.livejournal.com]

Grats on first!

And yes, I am a great supporter of paragraph breaks! :)

[bookishgeek.livejournal.com]

On the flip side, try not to make it too long, too! Especially in these early stages, I don't have time to read everyone's AND comment when half of them are novella-length. I love me a good, long and juicy piece (of writing!!), but for a competition where time is of the essence, don't make it too overwhelming! (I lose points for initially writing 'shove it down my throat' and going back to erase it).

[cacophonesque.livejournal.com]

If a piece is really good, I'll keep reading even if it's long. But the problem I ran into a few times this past round was that I got bored in the middle. It started strong, but then it took so long to get to the climax and resolution that I gave up and moved on to something else.

It's especially bad when it's just internal views of the character where it's like "I have feelings! I have more feelings! I'm feeling here. Did you know I also have feelings?" And I'm wondering how many ways do we have to see this expressed before the story continues.

Although it might also be that being sick has made me cranky.

[mezzogiorno.livejournal.com]

When the first sentence is "I want to talk about X" where X is the topic. We all want to talk about the topic, or rather have to, so it can be a bit of a groan moment to see that.

But in far more important news, anyone need a partner for this week?

[n3m3sis43.livejournal.com]

Yes, this. And also the one where people say "I don't know if this is any good," or "at first I was going to write about X, but then I did some things and had a BM and decided I should really talk about Y instead."

DON'T TELL ME YOUR PIECE ISN'T GOOD. LET ME DECIDE THAT FOR YOURSELF.

[cacophonesque.livejournal.com]

I'm sick with crud. Boo. Makes me feel mildly delirious.

And I asked someone to partner up, but seeing as they are a popular someone, who knows. I'd like to work some more on poetry, even if it doesn't get me as many votes as my experimental non-fiction usually does. Only way to improve and all that.

The biggest pitfall that I'm seeing from people so far (besides those mentioned) is not having a clear voice to their writing. I read a lot of pieces that are decent, but when I'm done, I couldn't tell you who wrote what. As in it feels like the piece could have been written by any one of thirty or so people. Not having a clear voice means forgettable. And forgettable isn't going to take you far.

[mezzogiorno.livejournal.com]

What would you recommend for working on improving that? It's a difficult thing to get right, I think.

[oxymoron67.livejournal.com]

I try to write the piece and then leave it alone for a while, even if it's just an hour or two and then get back to it.

I find that helps.

[eeyore-grrl.livejournal.com]

THIS! Start early in the time allotted so that you can check it. I usually start putting ideas onto a doc the day I learn the topic, or at least run them through my head. Usually, my first ideas die a lonely death, but then i latch onto one and run with it.

I have two friends that Beta read for me and help me out. Which gives me more perspective from my thoughts to how it is coming out. When I write poetry NOT on a timeline it takes months of putting the poem down and then coming back to it. Getting a familiarity with it that I don't have time to in a competition like this.

Though I like the time crunch. I think I've come away with some great pieces in Exhibit A that will get worked on more once time passes a bit.

[n3m3sis43.livejournal.com]

Shoe-horning in the “topic”. The topic is your starting place, but that doesn’t mean that you have to fit the word/phrase into your piece. Trying too hard just makes it feel awkward.

Ahhhhh, THANK YOU. This drives me infreakingSANE and there was a lot of it this week.

[joyfulfeather.livejournal.com]

I think it was harder this week because they were such unusual topics. It was easy to feel like you *had* to have the topic in there to make it clear what you were doing. I like Gary's comment that it's just important that you use the topic as inspiration. I'm trying in this round to judge less on whether an entry matches the topic, but everyone has their own criteria, so... It gets tough to decide where to draw the line.

[joyfulfeather.livejournal.com]

Agreed on all counts! I've been able to get through the main poll the last two weeks, and I wind up voting for most of the entries - but most of the ones I don't vote for fall into one or more of these. Not all - some I just don't like the style or content. It's hard to please everyone. But avoiding these issues can help.

Make sure your beta reader checks your grammar, please! Nothing gets to me as much as persistent bad grammar.

All that said - I'm really interested in knowing why my nonfiction almost always does poorly. Maybe it's a lack of clear voice, as someone said. This week I also suspect people didn't like that I ended with kind of a discussion question, rather than a firm closing statement. I don't know. I feel like I need a nonfiction tutor! ;)

[cacophonesque.livejournal.com]

As mentioned, I'm sick at the moment and not very clear-headed. On my spreadsheet I put people as yes, maybe, or no and try to jot down a quick few words about why I put them there.

This week I put you as a maybe. And my note was that you had an interesting idea, but I wanted to see further development in some of the sections. Ending on a discussion question was not an issue for me--it's a legitimate way to end a blog post or article, which seemed to be the form/genre that you were working in.

Just my own quick thoughts.

[turned-in2-moon.livejournal.com]

Hate asking favors, but anyone want to help me out?

Standalone thing kinda concerns me. Could say my posts are a series since they're all about me. Get so fucking deep inside my head sometimes, forget what details other people'd need to see.

Wondering if anyone who read my post this week can tell me if there's stuff that didn't make sense. Appreciate it. (PM's fine if you'd rather not say it in here.)

[ashgaelsonaria.livejournal.com]

Well.
I am uncertain about sci I might just skip it and work on other stuff and maybe hg.
been out of sorts and Me and I kept myself up all night arguing about the topics and writing quality. Myself repeatedly interrupted me and I to remind them that it was late and I really needed sleep but was completely ignored.

[medleymisty.livejournal.com]

I partnered with a noob this time! Told you I would! ;)

But she is a Sims person and she already knew my Sims work, so there's that.

Anyway, we have an excellent idea and I think you guys will like it when we're done. :)

Personally, for me....

I like entries of a decent length. If it's too short, I'm going to feel like you didn't try. My own entries tend to average 1000 to 2000 words, with occasional ventures into 2500 or so words. Never more than a bit over 3000, though.

One thing that I've struggled with in Idol is how people come to it with a different view of things than I do. Well, I guess...

If Idol was World of Warcraft, then I'd be a hardcore raider. Other people are more casual players. Casuals and hardcores have always been at odds. ;)

Writing is me. It's my thing. It's what I was born to do. I wrote "I'm thinking about being a true story writer" on three separate occasions in my second grade journal. I have been doing it all my life, and I've been especially hardcore about it since I started my Sims 3 magnum opus In the Valley of the Sun in the summer of 2009. So for the last four years I have been constantly writing and trying new things and doing my best to learn and improve. I mean, it was years ago when I decided that writing blogs had nothing more to teach me and I struck out on my own, going further than anyone else I could find online to learn from.

So I look at my Idol entries as ART, you know? I put a lot of sweat and effort into them, and I like to make them long enough to do what the story has to do, and I am way way more concerned with writing well and making good art than I am with things like trying to appeal to audience tastes.

I also tend to look at entries with a very critical eye, because of that background. Like I look for sentence flow and word usage and structure. I try to keep an open mind about subject matter and all that. I have all these moral feelings about art, lol, and one of them is being open to all art that comes my way and never ever dismissing anything based on subjective things, if I can help it. I come into people's entries open and willing, and I try to be as objective as I can possibly be.

Still though, if a quick scan shows me sentences that are all awkward and wrong, it's going to have to be a really engaging story to get me to do a full read.

[roina-arwen.livejournal.com]

So I look at my Idol entries as ART, you know? I put a lot of sweat and effort into them, and I like to make them long enough to do what the story has to do, and I am way way more concerned with writing well and making good art than I am with things like trying to appeal to audience tastes.

Yes, this. Myself, I'm better at the short form. The mjaority of my pieces are in the 500-750 word range. I think 1000-1500 words is more than long enough for an Idol entry, 3000 is FAR TOO LONG. I don't want to have to read 25 or more novellas a week. I mean seriously, that's like reading 6-8 pages of a book, isn't it? When there are 70+ people to read, that's a heck of a lot of ground to cover, especially if we only have 2 days to do it in.

I'm not saying that I WON'T read really long entries - but they have to be grab me right off and be DAMN GOOD to keep me reading.

Strong openings and strong endings, people, with enough detail in the middle that we know what's what and who's who.

[roina-arwen.livejournal.com]

Shoe-horning in the “topic”. The topic is your starting place, but that doesn’t mean that you have to fit the word/phrase into your piece. Trying too hard just makes it feel awkward

This is fairly typical for the newbies especially. Those of us who have been around a while are more likely to use the topic as a jumping-off point.

My main issue is when we have multiple topics, and the writer DOES NOT indicate which topic they are writing on. Now, I know that folks don't really want to use (for example) "Umm" as their subject line. If you want to actually title your piece, ie: "My Awkward Summer Vacation", that's great, but either stick (Topic: Umm) at the end of your title, or maybe as a footer at the bottom. I'm cool either way. Just don't make me guess, or you *may* lose my vote. And FWIW, IMO just sticking one lone "umm" in your piece is a piss-poor way to write on the topic. I know that sounds harsh, and I'm not saying that anyone lost a vote by doing that, but come on, really?

/rant

[sweeny-todd.livejournal.com]

I kind of liked reading them to figure out which topic it fit into! There were a couple I couldn't tell.. although I do tend to tag things with the topic, so people can check if they want. (I had to go and check now if I did)!

[mothermelete.livejournal.com]

I have to highly agree with getting a spell check going on. If I'm reading something with a bunch of spelling errors, it's going to annoy me and I'm not likely to vote for it.

[x-disturbed-x.livejournal.com]

Spell check is my friend!

I also can't read if it's a big, giant clunky paragraph. It's just too much to take in for me.

[kf4vkp.livejournal.com]

The intros that have nothing to do with the piece. Or even the ones that do it they are back explaining in a way that is disjointed from the tone of the piece.

Something like, well this one time at band camp this happened and its kind of connected to the topic via this so that is what I choose.

Or explaining why you posted early thus not giving you a lot of time. We all have life going on. If you posted early you just did for whatever reason. The paragraph about why at the beginning keeps me from focusing on your work.

All of that being said, anyone wanna be my intersection partner?

[kf4vkp.livejournal.com]

Got a partner! Yay!

[kf4vkp.livejournal.com]

Also, while mentioning the subject isn't necessary, actually not being able to figure out the tie in makes me feel like you just wrote about what you wanted.

[roina-arwen.livejournal.com]

Yes, this.

[theun4givables.livejournal.com]

Another biggie is JOURNAL LAYOUT. If your font is tiny and gray on white I just can't, man. My eyes ain't what they used to be (and they didn't used to be much, let me tell you).

I'd be more useful this morning in terms of providing tips -- but as a person who tends to write serial pieces -- get a beta who is unfamiliar with your universe or your characters/their story. They'll be able to point out where there's moments of confusion or if the piece stands alone much better than friends who are used to your 'verse. :)

[sweeny-todd.livejournal.com]

yes! I think I have my journal set to read others in your own style (but I have a paid account) but when I switch to peoples defaults, some I just can't do.

[sweeny-todd.livejournal.com]

Spelling is an interesting one - I have had people tell me piece was full of typos, and when I read, reread I couldn't see them... only to realise later it is because I used british english as spelling. So that is something worth remembering British vs American english

and quite ironically edited for a spelling error >_

[vaudy.livejournal.com]

That . . . is interesting. It has never occurred to me that people would not recognize the "other" spelling conventions (from their starting perspective) and would read them as typos. I can't think of a time since at least grammar school that I didn't recognize British English spelling as just that.

[bookishgeek.livejournal.com]

I was just waiting for someone to comment on my week 2 entry and say, "Really? You're gonna do THAT to get your topic in there? Come ON, sister." Thankfully, nobody did, but maybe some of you were thinking it! Did mine seem shoehorned? Please be honest.

[bewize.livejournal.com]

I have serious icon love. :)

[bewize.livejournal.com]

I'm in need of a partner. :)

Also, pet peeves-

Giant blocks of text.

Really long entries that meander.

Text speak (unless quoting a text, or making fun of it)

And, I know I'm weird, but for me to vote for a piece of fiction, it has to be really good and really compelling. I'm way more likely to vote for nonfiction that I think bares a bit of the author's soul.

[roina-arwen.livejournal.com]

But some of us have no souls! =P

[banyangirl1832.livejournal.com]

I've thankfully schooled myself out of doing most of those pitfalls, but some days my voice (or the voice of the story) just doesn't seem that interesting. Any advice on what to do then?

[sweeny-todd.livejournal.com]

I think that fiction needs to be good to draw me in - especially the big fantasy worlds, but I find myself overwhelmed by all the soul sharing :-/ maybe I am just a superficial person, but I look for levity in a piece. And if it makes me laugh, it almost automatically gets my vote!

[roina-arwen.livejournal.com]

Oh good - you're my kind of reader! I enjoy making people laugh. =D

[kathrynrose.livejournal.com]

I never got my hash browns. :/

And I guess the GR went up early, or people are just, um, awake or whatever, and I'm late to the party, but I think all mine have been said.

Don't shoehorn the topic, but make it clear enough what you're writing.

Don't start with, "when I first thought about writing this, blah blah and it might suck but here it is..."

When there are a lot of entries, I will start reading every post, but I will not necessarily finish reading. Get my attention and keep it.

I read everything in my own style, because I'm the one with the bad eyes who always complains, but I've heard there are people out there with tiny grey on grey font and I've heard people say they can't make it through.

Edit.

Edit a couple of times.

Seriously, it takes longer to write an entry, but editing is a good thing.

Also, I'm not going to remember what happened in your entry last week, and I'm not going to click back to go see. Every entry should make sense on its own, including "who is this character" and "where are they?"

Can I get some coffee with my breakfast? I need caffeine.

[n3m3sis43.livejournal.com]

If you happen to be reading something of mine that's posted in a standalone context (i.e. not titled "chapter X of Blah") and it's not standing on its own for you... I would be eternally grateful if you'd PM me or comment or something to let me know where it lost you. If you have the time, anyway.

This is a thing I wrestle with a great deal.

[zephyrly.livejournal.com]

Just write whatever the hell you want. Fuck those made-up rules.

That's pretty much what I was telling myself throughout Exhibit A. Needless to say, it worked out pretty well.

[mac-arthur-park.livejournal.com]

This.

[sarcasmoqueen.livejournal.com]

I agree with all the points listed above, and hope I'm not guilty of any of them...

I have to add something about fiction writers, though, since the majority of my writing is fiction. Don't think that because we're inventing a story instead of telling one that we're not baring our souls - for me, anyway, my fiction is often more soul baring than my non-fiction! The non-fiction is basically the retelling of something that actually happened, whereas my fiction can reveal hidden fears/dreams, etc.

In other news I'm still looking for an intersection partner. My home PC is fried, so I will only be able to write today, tomorrow and Monday, although I can check emails through my phone all weekend to discuss ideas and all that jazz. Things that might help you decide if you want to work with me:

- I live in the Eastern time zone
- I tend to write fiction (although I can do non fiction as well)
- I like being humourous in my writing, even though my first 2 entries of this season were not humourous (funny entries can be found in my journal from last season)
- I don't do poetry

Send an email to sarcasmoqueen at videotron dot ca if I haven't scared you off! First come first served!

[lrig-rorrim.livejournal.com]

Seconding the thing about fiction. Just... yeah. Most of the time, in my experience, a fictional story is quite raw and emotional for the author to write.

Here's the thing, though: if the readers aren't feeling that same emotional punch, aren't seeing the vulnerability and the revelation of self, then maybe we as fiction authors need to step up our game a little bit to make sure it's there for them. It's always gonna be there for us, but getting that emotion into our characters, into our situations, and into our plots is part of the work we need to do.

[dreamsreflected.livejournal.com]

I like medleymisty's view that idol pieces should stand like art. I can get beyond poor form and less than perfect grammar and spelling (unless it's atrocious) if a story is captivating. That said early on in the game I'm likely to skim, because my time is limited and slogging through a novel of poorly written netspeak isn't going to be an efficient use of my time, however if it's a shorter piece even if it's not amazing I'm more likely to make the effort to finish it, long is great as long as it remain engaging.

To me writing is like watching a trapeze show or an elaborate dance, the people who are really good at it make it look effortless and reading the piece isn't a chore but a joy, it's captivating. Those of us who are still "building those muscles" (which could be just about anyone given the week/topic/life events) can end up looking awkward, and that happens to everyone, but the trick is to write effectively and efficiently and make the best of the topic and the time. I'm sure we could all write a masterpiece if we had a year to craft each piece, but then again, if the rest of you are anything like me you'd still be doing "one last edit" right before deadline.

That first paragraph to me is key, if it's an introduction "this week we wrote about" I'm likely going to skip it and try and find the meat of the story, if you feel compelled to write an explanation behind your entry that's cool sometimes that context is helpful but in my opinion, it's better put at the end of the piece or as a separate post linked to the entry or even as a comment on the entry.

[lrig-rorrim.livejournal.com]

I think that is my biggest pet peeve (and I actually commented elsewhere in this GR about it, too): putting an explanation in your entry, of pretty much anything - the topic, your ideas, why it isn't so great because you were pressed for time, what you were trying to do this week, any of it.

I want the words to speak for themselves. I NEVER mind seeing something like that as a comment, and I am often super grateful that it went there, rather than in the entry itself. That's the way to do it, folks.

I don't have any single "do this and I won't vote for it" criteria, but if I'm scowling instead of smiling as I'm reading, it's not a good sign, and this is a thing that makes me frown.

[x-disturbed-x.livejournal.com]

I really try hard not to fit the phrase or word in my piece but I'm a literal person and have trouble seeing outside of that.

It's part of the aspergers to take some things just literally (or at least it seems to be from the ones I've met) it but I'm going to try to just use it as a jumping off point rather than being well... literal. ;)

[n3m3sis43.livejournal.com]

My brain makes some pretty loose connections (I know you are shocked to hear this), so if you ever want to brainstorm a topic, you can email me or PM me.

Oh, that reminds me that I need to read your thing, like... today? Shit. I'm so sorry. I've been sick since... Tuesday?