Work Room - Week 4

[clauderainsrm.livejournal.com]

The last few weeks in the Work Room, we have had zia_narratora helping out as a Mentor. She did a great job. (Thank you again Tea!)

This week though, I think you have definitely have the ability to help out each other, and when I can, I will be walking around the room to answer whatever I can help out with.

Which is a bit of an Idol first. But I figure - this week is all about me anyway! Right? Right! http://therealljidol.livejournal.com/495977.html

Which is why I feel OK with pointing a couple things out. These aren't new things. Some of them I have said before. But there is no harm in saying them again, just in case you were someone who didn't listen the first time:

- If you tell me that your entry isn't very good, I'm going to assume you know best and I'm not going to bother reading it. There are so many entries out there to be read, and only so much time. If you start out your entry (or use it in the link cut) giving me any indication that you are wasting my time, I'm going to move on. There have been times when the only reason that I have read something is because I was linking it anyway. Had I not been doing that, I wouldn't have bothered with it, and missed out on something worth reading.

Just don't do it. If you have to write about how tough it was to write something, go ahead - write it. Then delete that section completely before linking it.


- Formatting is your friend. See above - if you tell me that you didn't have time to make your entry something other than a block of text - then you are telling me that I shouldn't waste my time. You could have just submitted the greatest work of literature of the 21st Century. If I look at your page and things blur from a block of text or an unreadable color, you have lost me.
An example from a few seasons ago comes to mind of someone who was doing that. She was suffering in the polls because people were just not able to find an entry point into the work due to the color of the text against the background. It seems like such a simple thing - but it was huge. She fixed the problem and made it easier for a casual reader, and ended up making it into the finals that season!

Again, the lesson is pretty straight forward - do not sabotage yourself before you get out of the gate. You need to make people want to read your work.

Note: I understand that there are some folks out there using JAWS or similar programs. That certainly can inhibit proper formatting. But I've also seen people use it and not have that problem, so I would suggest asking one of them for tips.

- Which leads right into my next point - get a beta reader. Find someone you trust to be honest and candid with you about your work. Get them to read it over and point out how you can make the piece stronger.

Believe me, it's something I am personally resist in my own work. But over the years, I've seen it work.

Ideally, Idol itself can perform that function. But I know some people are nervous about giving candid feedback - and the ones who aren't, might not be the people you really want to be listening to given their lack of understanding of the word 'constructive".

But, even if you don't want to post asking for people to give feedback, it might not be the worst idea to email a couple people that you know and enjoy to find out what they think of a particular piece. One of the advantages of working so closely with other writers, for such a period of time, is that you have the opportunity to make each other get that much better.

I'd highly recommend taking advantage of it. If nothing else, you might make a new friend in the process.

- When it comes to writing the actual entry - trust your gut. Don't play it safe. There is no benefit in playing it safe. You're not going to get better that way, and you certainly won't be very interesting to read.

- I'm sure there are more "pet peeves" of mine that will come up throughout the week. I'll update the list or just comment in this entry as I remember them!

Anyone notice anything else people have been doing to sabotage themselves? More importantly, have you noticed anything you have been doing in your own work?

Comments

additional thought

[clauderainsrm.livejournal.com]

- "being edgy" without anything new to say. One of the problems with doing this sort of thing for 8 seasons is that I've seen a lot of people come through these cyber doors. With those sorts of numbers, there is a good chance that I've seen whatever you are doing before.

Granted, I'm just one guy - one guy who votes for everyone. So, obviously, you don't need my vote! ;)

But regardless, there are other people out there who have seen, and experienced a lot of the same thing.

If you are going to play the controversial card, or even the meta one, you better do it in a new and interesting way.

That really goes for all writing. Not just in Idol, but in every other aspect and market. Part of it is in the Gaiman quote Tea cited - about being the "best you" that you can be.

More to the point though, if you're not going to give us something that is you - that only you can give us, why would anyone care?

Anyone can post a rant. It takes something a little more to make us care about whatever it is you are saying.

pet peeve?

[pen-name.livejournal.com]

small fonts. 8 or 9 point might look great on your layout, but when viewing it on a large monitor from 18+ inches away, i can barely read it.

and i know, i know, i could change it so i could view all the entries in my own style, but then i miss the writer's presentation, which might be important.

Re: pet peeve?

[createdestiny.livejournal.com]

Yes! There are some contestants who use such a small font size that it is difficult to read their entry....this could be why some who are writing decent entries aren't pulling in a lot of votes.

Change your font size, increase your numbers in the polls!

[solstice-singer.livejournal.com]

Is it "narcissism" we're going for? Just checking, as the current topic isn't actually a word.

[clauderainsrm.livejournal.com]

Yes.

See my point about a beta reader.

Don't be me. ;)

[joyfulfeather.livejournal.com]

Huge agreement on the formatting issue. There was an entry recently that looked like a good read, but I couldn't get through it because of how it was formatted. Readability really does matter! (Grammar and spelling contribute to that, too.)

In terms of trusting your gut and not playing it safe -- that's kinda what I did this past week. I knew I couldn't come up with something that was a straight take on "fossilized poo." I have no poo stories I want to tell, sorry! But rather than take a bye, I came up with an interpretation that I liked and went with that. It was a risk, and I was dead certain I'd be voted out because of it. I came close to withdrawing it and taking the bye instead. I left it in, though -- and wouldn't you know, I didn't get voted out! In fact, as I watched the votes come in, I was always towards the middle of my tribe. Sure, it wasn't my best effort -- but it worked for some people, and that's what mattered. If I'd tried to force something else, I could have flopped big time.

[clauderainsrm.livejournal.com]

That was the right move IMO.

What might seem like a "straight interpretation" to one person might not be for the next.

Honestly, if I wanted "500 words about your favorite poop story" I could have put that up. I didn't. I left it open to however you wanted to go, and whatever format you wanted to use.

Some people are more willing to stretch those boundaries than others. There are some who might stretch it to the point of breaking. It's about finding wherever that comfortable balance is within your own work, and it's going to be a different place for everyone.

[applespicy.livejournal.com]

I have to say that one of my pet peeves is when someone just muses on and on about the topic itself without ever saying anything. Meta can be interesting if it's played right, but it's hard to do that and often just comes off like the writer has no idea what to write about. "This week in LJ Idol we are supposed to write about ___________ and blah blah blah." Kind of reminds me of what I tell my students in class - don't EVER start a story or an essay with, "I am going to tell you about _________." I much prefer it when a writer just starts right into their take on the topic without a bunch of pointless meandering.

[pixiebelle.livejournal.com]

Exactly. That's what I tried to say as well!

[jem0000000.livejournal.com]

Endings. So many start out great, have a strong theme or point or whatever in the middle, and then just... fizzle away. Either they clearly have no idea where to go from their point, and ramble around before calling it done, or they abruptly change focus and tell us why this ties into the prompt.

[joyfulfeather.livejournal.com]

Endings are hard! I think, for myself, I want to try actually outlining an entry before I write it. I've never done that for something as short as an Idol post, but it could be helpful in laying out the structure and figuring out what the ending really is. Sometimes it's just not intuitively obvious when you're writing. But you have to make the effort; the ending is the last thing a reader sees before deciding to vote for you or not, so you don't want to leave someone cold.

[tralfamadore.livejournal.com]

One thing that has always interested me about LJ Idol is the variety of reasons people choose to participate. I think especially in regards to last week's topic, we're now starting to see evidence of the difference between participating in a writing competition, and participating in a writing competition. Strategy certainly came into play when droves of people opted to take a bye rather than force themselves to write on a rather gross topic. It's a delicate balance to strike, and one I had a lot of difficulties with when I participated briefly back in the fourth season. How much of what you do in LJ Idol is to challenge yourself to grow as a writer and find inspiration in unlikely places, and how much of what you do is aimed at just getting yourself on to the next week?

Clearly this is a question that could be asked of anyone who's putting their writing out there for mass consumption. If other people are reading and judging you based on it, there's got to be some kind of universal appeal. Or you've got to jump in with both feet and commit to the idea that people may not like what you're saying, but damn it you're going to be true to yourself and say it anyway. It's curious, the way different people have chosen to tackle this. And it's curious to think about what it means for the way this competition will play out.

What I know is a whole lot of people are down one bye, and there's no guarantee that from here on out the topics are going to be nice and straightforward and rife with inspiration. But what about the people who put themselves out there and wrote something that was less than well-received on the basis of being gross or less polished than in weeks prior? I don't know. I'm just rambling. It's going to be good fun to see how it all works out in the end.

[nodressrehersal.livejournal.com]

You make some interesting points and raise good questions, too. I'm an LJ Idol newbie, but I've participated in other writing sites in the past where some of these same issues came up.

For me, the emphasis is on "writing" and not "competition," but I'm sure that varies from person to person. I think it's more important to write something you're proud to put out there than to try and figure out what the readers will vote for, if that makes sense. All you can do is the best you can do, and hope that your best is good enough to propel you forward.

Last week, I wrote about my job as an organizer working with a hoarder. I honestly didn't know if it would have widespread appeal, but I worked hard on saying what I wanted to say, being respectful while trying to paint a vivid picture, and trusting that it tied to the topic appropriately enough. I was pleasantly surprised at the response it got.

I think this next topic is going to be much harder than the last one, truth be told. But I'll still give it my best shot, god willin' and the creek don't rise...

[pixiebelle.livejournal.com]

I'm not at home on my computer but want to say bravo, Gary! Very good points. I typically don't vote for anyone that doesn't use proper formatting because I have trouble reading big blocks. I can't get into things with huge chunks, I need breaks.

Also, I don't care much for starting the entry out talking about the topic and how you had to google it. Chances are most of us had to google it, and chances are someone else also mentioned having to google it. You are not going to stand out by composting about the topic. Likely you've lost my interest before I get past that paragraph because I've read that 20 times already. Same with the definition. I googled it or know what it means, give the reader the benefit of the doubt.

Start your entry with what you have to say. Draw us in. Show us it's going to be worth the time to read it. That's what hooks us in to keep reading. A bad intro can break a perfectly good intro because people may never get past that part to read anything else.

Also, think on the topic a bit. Seriously, this is not a race to see who can get in the fastest. Think about what you want to tell us and then format a plan to do so. If you hurry to post something up, you may think of something better later. I know my brain often surprises me. I have had different ideas for all the topics so far and let it settle a bit... And then discovered more unique ideas I liked better. I'm always happy I waited.

Besides, time and effort shows in writing. I prefer entries that show that the writer took the time out to really think through their entry.

I'm more than happy to offer constructive criticism through email even before you post the entry. Feel free to ask. I have a beta reader, I'm not ashamed to say it. It's nice to get feedback and a different perspective. I've grown as a writer from the advice I've been given through my time here, and most of it's been through email conversations instead of the entries itself. Don't be afraid to ask.

[xo-kizzy-xo.livejournal.com]

Also, think on the topic a bit. Seriously, this is not a race to see who can get in the fastest. Think about what you want to tell us and then format a plan to do so.

That's one thing I've noticed these first few weeks -- within an hour our two after the prompt is posted, there's suddenly a bunch of entries in the link thread. With a big group like this I understand the need to "get my entry up there ASAP because people will read mine first/second/etc..". I'm also very much of the "go with your gut" school where you run with your inspiration. However, the speed of which entries are linked...it does make me wonder if thinking and formatting sometimes takes a back seat. Do you know what I mean?

[seratonation.livejournal.com]

I think I know what I want to write for this topic, or at least, something i want to include, i just need to figure out how to build around that so its distinctively me and not like anyone else. if that makes sense.

its all about me me me after all :P

[jem0000000.livejournal.com]

Lol! :)

Good luck. ;)

[alien-infinity.livejournal.com]

Something I don't like is when people start their entry out with a "this is why my post fits this topic" sort of thing, or make their whole post about why their post fits the topic, if that last part makes any sense. The "this is why" meta thing feels awkward and usually not very creative when I see it.

I personally got tired of reading about poo-related pranks this week, probably because I'm not a fan of practical jokes in real life. That's not to say people who wrote about that subject did badly, but it wasn't a take that I liked on a personal level.

[pixiebelle.livejournal.com]

Conpletely agree with everything you've said here. The poop humor got a bit old. There were some good entries... But overall, I didn't care for it much. It's just not my style of humor and I felt too many people thought they could be clever with it. It's just not my thing. I preferred the metaphors, the puns, or the literal interpretations if written creatively.

[tralfamadore.livejournal.com]

Also, Gary. It might be worth the reminder that nothing other than submissions go in the "Topic" post for a week. I know that would be a pet peeve of mine if I was wearing down my trackpad every week deleting dozens of unnecessary comments in those entries!

[roina-arwen.livejournal.com]

I'm happy to help beta; my husband (who is on LJ, but rarely updates) helped beta my piece this past week - the "Terrestrial Reconnaissance Expedition" (aka T-Rex) was his idea, LOL.

Something I tend to do in my own work -- besides my obvious fondness for wordplay/puns and a tendency towards alliteration -- is that I can sometimes be overly subtle.

For example, I'm not sure if anyone actually caught onto my *extremely* subtle play on Coprolite... aka Corporal Ike... because I never used that exact phrase in the post, although I did mention it in reply to one of my later commenters.

Subtlety can be good, but being overly subtle, not so much.

[joyfulfeather.livejournal.com]

I run into that problem, too! I get annoyed when I see other people being too obvious, so I go out of my way to avoid that -- and wind up being too subtle. It's so hard for me to judge, though, what's going to be too subtle or too obvious and what's the right amount. Maybe a beta reader could help with that...

[alien-infinity.livejournal.com]

For Week 3, I tried to do something different than usual and ended up with a not-that-me entry. I wanted to stretch myself, but Week 3's story felt more...generic than what I'm (at least sometimes) capable of doing. Maybe that's why I was quite close to being eliminated? Maybe I'm imagining things?

[joyfulfeather.livejournal.com]

That's an interesting point! Stretching yourself is good, moving out of your comfort zone is good -- but is there a limit to how much you can stretch to still turn out a good post that feels true to yourself?

[joyfulfeather.livejournal.com]

I guess it comes back to that "writing" vs "competition" thing that tralfamadore mentioned above. People who are popular might do better in general, but is that completely invalid? There's no guideline to how people have to vote -- no scoring rubric other than our own judgment. Some people don't care as much about spelling and grammar as they do about intent or personality. It baffles me sometimes, honestly, but if that's how people vote, then that's how it is. We're never going to agree with how everyone else votes, sadly!

[vaudy.livejournal.com]

I find I'm getting more picky about grammar, now the* that the competition has gotten into full swing. I gave people a pass the first couple of weeks; if their grammar/punctuation/spelling wasn't too terrible, I let it go, if I otherwise got some enjoyment out of the piece.

I don't want to pick someone's grammar apart just for the sake of grammar--but it does actually affect my enjoyment of the writing, because poor grammar is distracting (and there is a discernible difference between writing that bends the rules of grammar for style or effect and writing that's lacking in the fundamentals).

I'm sure everyone has their own limits, and that's fine. For me, though, if I'm thinking about your subject/verb agreement or your comma placement, I'm not thinking about what you're trying to say.

The occasional error isn't a problem for me--everybody makes mistakes. It's the pieces that have pervasive errors that I pass over.

*Oh, the irony!

[ecosopher.livejournal.com]

Haha!

I find poor grammar and spelling makes me uncomfortable. I'm a bit of a synesthete when it comes to spelling. Words need to 'look' right.

These aging, tired eyes

[isis-lives.livejournal.com]

Formatting makes a big difference! I agree with all the comments about small fonts and grammar. I also have trouble with certain backgrounds. The eyes get tired after reading so many entries and ifnthe entry is too bright or is white on black, i have a hard time with it. Could be just me, but it is real. ;)

[purple-drake.livejournal.com]

Agreed! I've made it a habit to turn off custom journal layouts in entries because the LJ default is that much easier to read, but now I'm so used to it that I actually get surprised whenever I click a link and wind up in a custom layout. Sometimes I've even found myself refreshing to try and get to the default before remembering that oh, oops, not something I can control there ...

[comedychick.livejournal.com]

I just want to second Gary on the finding a beta reader. For the majority of last season, my entries were looked over by at least one person whose writing I liked and opinion I trusted. One week I think I might've had three, and there were a few weeks I had two people looking at my entries. Oh! And there was another week where I posted my entry friends only, unsure how I felt about it, and had people give me feedback before I was confident enough to post it publicly. I feel like it's this sort of thing that really helped me improve so much as a writer last season, in a way that I hadn't done in season 6.

In my goodbye post last season, I said I'd be open to doing this for some people this season (because I also enjoyed going over a few other people's entries and giving them similar feedback, before their entries were posted). I'm not going to be available to do this every week (I travel a lot, and I'm working on my own writing), but if anyone is interested in asking me to go over their entry/brainstorm/whatever, send me a PM and maybe a short one sentence summary of what your entry is about and I'll let you know if I have time. I have a bit of a preference for non-fiction entries, but I like a whole range of topics, and fiction, too.

The narcissist in me wants to let you know what I specialise in but I probably shouldn't make this more about me than it already is ;)

[sorchawench.livejournal.com]

::pulls out her rod and reel, baits a hook with tempting words and goes fishing for a beta reader::

[jem0000000.livejournal.com]

Lol! If I was going to have time this week, you'd have caught me with that, but I'm afraid offline life is demanding a certain amount of time. There are several people offering beta help in the threads above, though.

[liret.livejournal.com]

For me, whatever someone puts in their entry post is the entry. And with this many people, I won't keep reading if the first few paragraphs bore me. If someone really wants me to make my voting choices based on their story about how they didn't know what to write about, I will - but if there's fifty of those stories, I'm not going to vote for any of them. It isn't really going to matter if what comes after that would have made a great entry by itself.

I also think some people sabotage themselves by trying to use the actual topic phrase or word in their entry when it doesn't quite fit or they don't really understand it. I'd rather see someone use a synonym that seems more natural in the piece.

[teaberryblue.livejournal.com]

Yes, Idol isn't a "use this word in a sentence" contest.

Technical help

[ecosopher.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure where to look for this, but I'm thinking of doing a short piece of music (which I'll play) and wondered if there's a way other than the voice post option of putting it in my journal? I guess I can do it via voice post but knowing me, I'll make mistakes so I'd like to record it and upload it. It's only going to be around 20 seconds or so.

Re: Technical help

[seratonation.livejournal.com]

You can always upload it to youtube with a blank background, but I don't know how to do this. I just use tumblr for audio and link to the post from lj

[perrie.livejournal.com]

Personally, I sincerely dislike rants. Constructive deconstruction of a topic or subject is totally fine. Going all out to complain about how awful and terrible and nasty such and such is is just off putting. Bile is not a pretty thing to read. A well considered examination of a bad thing makes a great entry. Several paragraphs of pure disgust is not.

Also, take a step outside the box. Look further than the obvious meaning of a topic, because a lot of the time, if you've come up with something straight off the bat, most of your competitors will have too. If you take an entry with a slightly different spin, it makes you stand out amongst the competition. People will remember the red circle in the middle of the blue squares, and probably vote for it too.

[teaberryblue.livejournal.com]

The one place where I like rants is if they are clearly using the structure of a rant to some deliberate purpose, usually humor. But there are some non-humorous rants I like. It just has to be a case where the writer is deliberately making a choice to use a rant to communicate. And yeah, I don't like bile or judgmental language.

[cosmolinguist]

I just wanted to say I'm very happy to be a beta reader if people are interested. I've done this for many books, a couple of magazines, an MA dissertation, someone's PhD work...and a lot of other things :)

[pen-name.livejournal.com]

how do you feel about poetry?

[imafarmgirl.livejournal.com]

Yes, Gary, it's all about you. Kicks you.

You do give good advice though.

I've still been seeing people writing a paragraph of introduction to their entries. It is a huge pet peev of mine and sometimes keeps me from reading the entry. I think author's notes should go at the end. That way they don't detract from the piece.

This is a hard topic for me. We'll see what I come up with. I do have one idea.

[xo-kizzy-xo.livejournal.com]

I've got a similar issue where I sometimes suddenly change tenses in the middle of a paragraph. I won't catch it unless I either press my husband into being my beta reader or if somebody catches it after I've posted. I should perhaps adopt the reading-aloud :)

[anastoff.livejournal.com]

Hello everyone. This is my second season in LJ Idol, and I read the work room posts but have never posted a comment here. Despite being crazily busy with school, I would like to change that and get more involved. I was intrigued by this week's advice to seek feedback on how to make pieces stronger and more readable, especially since I am blind and have no idea what my entries look like as far as format is concerned. I get a lot of votes and approximately 20 comments which is wonderful, but I have noticed other contestants getting a lot more. I know some of this has to do with the fact that with 16 credits of college responsibilities, I don't have the time to read and comment on other entries. For that I apologize. But has anyone noticed anything that I could do better with my entries, or formatting issues that make my entries difficult to read? You all have my permission to give candid suggestions. Don't be shy. I have taken several english courses where workshopping was common. Thanks.

[clauderainsrm.livejournal.com]

You are actually someone that came to mind when I was thinking of the visual appeal of entries. Having a beta reader who can clean up the formatting issues might not be the worst idea.

Because what you are writing should be reaching a wider audience. I hope that it does.

I'm sure the lack of commenting plays into. After all - who doesn't want to get more comments? So they comment to the people who comment back! But I'm sure some of it comes down to the formatting.

Hopefully some people will have some direct suggestions for you. If they don't, I'll come back and do it later!