Work Room - Week 14

[clauderainsrm.livejournal.com]

There is a Results thread: http://community.livejournal.com/therealljidol/428444.html
a Second Chance Idol announcement: http://community.livejournal.com/therealljidol/428754.html
and a new topic http://community.livejournal.com/therealljidol/428897.html

Tuesday nights are busy here in Idol!

We also have the Work Room.

I've said this before (and I will likely say this again knowing me) this is your space to hash out ideas and thoughts about writing in general.

Last week we will lucky enough to have alexpgp stop in as a Guest Mentor. I hope everyone enjoyed that.

This week - well, we have another treat. Someone else who has been there, done that - from a different perspective, and I know she has a lot to say and share.

Again, you know her - you love her.

Arguably, the hardest working contestant in Idol history (I think making sure that you have a wifi connection in your recovery room so that immediately after giving birth you can get out an entry - thankfully she didn't have to do that - qualifies you for that title)

alycewilson!!

***

Good evening/morning/afternoon, class (depending on when you're reading this)!

My name is (WRITES ON THE BOARD) alycewilson, but you can call me Alyce, or Miss Alyce if you're nasty (or under 6 years old, or non-human). You can find out more about me (and my books, including my recent collection, The Art of Life which includes some pieces I wrote for LJ Idol seasons 5 and 6) at my home page. I will be your mentor this week. Your regular instructor, Mr. Gary, has left me a few notes, but (FLINGS THEM OUT THE WINDOW) we're going to just wing it, OK?

Actually, that's not entirely true. First of all, Mr. Gary didn't give me any notes (and if he had I wouldn't have thrown them out the window), but he did give me an idea of what he'd like me to do. Secondly, I do have more than a gut instinct when it comes to helping to shape writing. I don't usually do this, but permit me to whip something out (PULLS OUT HER MFA IN POETRY) -- who's giggling back there??? Anyway, while studying for my master's in poetry writing, I participated in many workshops in both poetry and fiction. I also taught an Intro to Poetry course for underclassmen at Penn State while pursuing my master's. In addition, I've often provided constructive feedback to contributors to my online literary quarterly, Wild Violet.

As I've learned from those workshops, the most productive way to give feedback is to focus on key elements. I won't be overwhelming you by correcting every grammatical error or spelling mistake. Instead, I'll be evaluating what I think the piece is trying to do and how well it does it. Then I'll give you feedback designed to help you make it better.


In addition, I'll make myself available for brainstorming or any other questions related to writing, poetry, or the nuances of baby language (in which I am becoming quite proficient, thanks to my 8-month-old). I apologize in advance for the fact that I may need to pause while answering a question in order to handle a diaper change, and I hope you don't mind if your papers are returned with baby drool on them.

Comments

[lawchicky.livejournal.com]

What great mentors we're getting this season!!

I wouldn't notice the baby drool. I see enough of it here that I'm now blind to it. I'm wondering if we'll see some more poetry this week with your assistance. It won't be from me, mind you, but perhaps from other brave folk.

I need to sleep on the topic and then try to pick my best idea/angle. I'm already imagining I'll be reading a lot of entries about eggs.

[alycewilson.livejournal.com]

I'm glad that you don't mind the baby drool. We have tons of it. I'm thinking of collecting it and marketing it.

Sleeping on the topic is always a great idea. Good luck!

[creature-girl08.livejournal.com]

Hey Alyce, Gary chose good in picking you.

I'm home gaming it now but still like reading what is happening in the work room. Ok, off to see what the topic is. Something about eggs I hear? Hummm!

[alycewilson.livejournal.com]

Cracks, actually. lawchicky thought that might lead to a lot of entries about eggs. That's certainly possible. I can think of a number of other ways to take that topic, but I'll remain mum until somebody has an idea to run by me.

I'm glad Gary asked me. I'm happy for the chance to coach from the sidelines.

[theafaye.livejournal.com]

Eggs was the last thing I thought of. As in, I hadn't even considered that possibility! Funny how different people's minds work in different ways.

[phoenixejc.livejournal.com]

Your thoughts on fiction entries? My brain is stirring that way again for this topic.

[alycewilson.livejournal.com]

For sure! One of the first things I thought of was the cracks in my hands I get every wintertime and have for the past several years. Then there is, of course, the idea of "cracks in the veneer," little indications that someone is not perfect. And of course, there's the childhood game of avoiding sidewalk cracks for fear of breaking your mother's back.

What about you? What thoughts come to mind, if you care to share?

[drjeff.livejournal.com]

I remember the days when all of my shirts had a small stain on the left shoulder. :)

[alycewilson.livejournal.com]

With fiction, as with anything else, it comes down to execution. Is the story compelling? Are the characters well-drawn, the story well-told? In general, I'd recommend trying to keep to a reasonable length (since long entries become tedious for readers to work through) and keeping the number of characters down to fewer than five (even less if it's a super-short "flash fiction" piece). Keep in mind, as well, that dialogue-heavy stories can be difficult for the reader to follow. If there is dialogue in the story, make it relevant to character development and plot, not just idle chit-chat.

In addition, keep in mind that fiction entries compete against personal stories in this competition, which provides both challenges and opportunities. On the one hand, fiction must compete with the emotional impact of a personal story. In order to do so effectively, the fiction story must make an impact on the reader, as well. The advantage is that, unlike non-fiction, you get to create your entire world. You develop a setting, characters, and plot that are to your liking. Maybe this is also why LJI voters can sometimes be more critical of fiction: they know that all the details are created, so they expect more cohesion, more effective storytelling, whereas they may be more permissive of a meandering personal story.

That said, I think that fiction, if done well, can be a great choice. Where are you thinking of taking it?

[momebie.livejournal.com]

So, last week I learned the lesson of not going with my gut. I worked through two or three ideas for posts before I settled on one that I thought was more engaging than the others, but it didn't seem to interest as many people as past posts have. This week I'm going to try going with the first idea. It's kind of coming out in second person though, which I don't usually write in. I'm going to roll with it, because I'm trying to use this competition to broaden my horizons and teach myself about different styles.

Do you (oh great mentor, or anyone reading) have any pointers for maintaining voice in an unfamiliar style, setting, or circumstance?

[alycewilson.livejournal.com]

The current wisdom is to wear shirts with patterns on them so that such stains are less noticeable. As always, this reminds me of Gilda Radner's quote: "I base my fashion taste on what doesn't itch."

[joyfulfeather.livejournal.com]

I love second person, both as a writer and as a reader. It's unusual, but when a story comes out that way, it's almost always compelling.

[phoenixejc.livejournal.com]

me too!

[phoenixejc.livejournal.com]

I have had a fiction series going on and off since about this time last season. I was thinking of picking up where one of the characters, Lex, is an adult and is given the "opportunity" to return to her homestead which is, for lack of better word, haunted.

[drjeff.livejournal.com]

I wore that stain as a badge of pride. 15 years ago, when my first kid was born, a dad with a baby always prompted people to say things like "oh, how sweet, you're babysitting." And I'd say, "no - I'm parenting!"

[theafaye.livejournal.com]

For me, this one is suggesting more metaphysical rather than physical approaches. I could think of lots of things with cracks in them (my new teapot for example which has a crack in the veneer I was told was just missing paint and when I got home realised it wasn't but don't want to make a fuss because the people I bought it from have done me a lot of favours) but I'd rather go for something more emotional, especially since I haven't done anything like that for a while. The prompt fits in very nicely with where the cheese story is going (I'm thinking either Moo is in a bit of a tizzy at the thought of finally travelling or Cheese struggles to run the shop as she had planned) and there's lots in my real life to base my theafaye entry on.

I'm currently brainstorming what I could write a horror story about, since I'm planning on keeping up the practice of writing a story for Echo as well. So far nothing springs to mind, but it's still pretty early days.

[alycewilson.livejournal.com]

First of all, you beat 21 people in your tribe, so you didn't do badly last week! Secondly, I read through your post, and I think that, if it didn't get the vote totals you were expecting, it might have been because the connection to the topic, "Inside Baseball," might not have been clear enough. Also, don't forget that, even if your post is part of a longer story, it should be capable of standing on its own. I'd be interested in hearing what your original idea had been and why you went with the approach you used. It might be helpful when you develop your next topic idea.

As far as your question about voice in an unfamiliar style, setting or circumstance is concerned, I would say the first thing you need to do is become more familiar with your setting. Some authors like to sit down and write out details of their setting, characters, etc. ahead of time, to become more familiar with them. This could come in the form of freewriting (writing whatever comes to mind, without editorial constraint) or by playing a sort of improv game, where you ask yourself questions and answer as the character. These details may not actually come into the piece, but your knowledge of the character will inform it.

Of course, you can get to the same place by a more intuitive form of writing. Alice Walker claimed to have channeled her characters from "A Color Purple", almost like a medium, allowing them to speak through her words. I would argue that Walker probably had a good internal feel for who each of those characters was ahead of time, even though she might not have put it down in note form.

Of course, if the voice you're writing in is very different from your own (for example, clinical and detached, whereas you might personally be more emotional), it can be harder to maintain that voice. Perhaps the best way to maintain it is to work on it in portions. Many writers feel that their best work comes within the first hour of sitting down. You could work on the piece for an hour, then take a break. Come back, read through what you've written, and write some more. When you get to the revision stage, try reading the piece backwards, one paragraph at the time. This will help you to ascertain whether the voice you're using at the conclusion of the piece matches the beginning.

Now, as far as writing in second person is concerned, I think you need to work to make certain all the story elements are there. Using second person makes the reader almost the implied protagonist of the story. You've got to be careful not to take on a "choose your own adventure" sort of storytelling, where the main character is essentially a cipher. Help us, the reader, understand who the protagonist is.

I think you've set an interesting challenge for yourself, and if you'd like more feedback, I'd be happy to hear more!

[alycewilson.livejournal.com]

Exactly! I think there might have been a sea change in attitudes about parenting. At least so far, I've seen several dads taking their kids to Storytime at the library or Water Babies at the community YMCA. But I'd have to ask The Gryphon what sort of a response he gets when he's taking KFP through the grocery store, for example. I'm not aware of him hearing comments like that.

[alycewilson.livejournal.com]

Your instinct for going for something emotional sounds like a good one. And "cracks" could apply to traveling anxiety or management troubles. It also brings to mind the fact that cheese, when it dries out, tends to develop cracks.

Not sure what kind of horror story you're thinking about, but I've always been horrified by the idea of underground creatures forcing their way through cracks in the surface.

[drjeff.livejournal.com]

I was a lucky dad - in grad school for both kids, and spent a TON of time with them. I was way better at diapering than my ex. :)

[momebie.livejournal.com]

It's really cool to see someone say that. I've seen so many people, published authors and non-published writers, complain about second person and how unwieldy it is and how it throws them out of stories. I don't have much practice writing it, but I've yet to read a second person piece that threw me out of the story just by virtue of being second person.

[alycewilson.livejournal.com]

So you'd be picking up about here? http://phoenixejc.livejournal.com/66719.html

Rereading this series, I find myself wondering if we're ever going to find out what happened to Cassandra. Will Lex ever find resolution?

Remember, as you're writing this, that it must be capable of standing on its own, since few of the voters will have read the entire series.

[alycewilson.livejournal.com]

We each have our strengths. I'm the only one who does baths, and of course, the only one capable of nursing. But The Gryphon, because he takes over at night while I'm doing my transcription work, is good at getting KFP to go to sleep WITHOUT breastfeeding!

TEAL DEER SIGHTING!

[momebie.livejournal.com]

Ah, the first two ideas that I had came from another universe entirely. The piece that I posted is part of an existing universe that I write in that I just call the Big Damn Existential Scifi Novel. My feeling about the prompt was that the metaphor had to do with inside, possibly complicated knowledge of a subject--not necessarily baseball--which I thought that Caleb did show. It's possible that I just read the prompt a different way than most people, because I did read a LOT of posts about baseball in some shape or form this past week.

The first two ideas were both set in a steampunk universe I work in regularly, but also dealt with inner workings and fine details and not with baseball in any way, shape, or form. (I admit to being stubborn and not wanting to write to the prompts as they're taken at face value, because I know that a lot of people will. I do realize that that's a fault of my own, though, and I don't really expect the other people in the competition to make up for my twists in interpretation if they don't want to.) The first was going to tie the mechanism and workings of self-winding watches to the idea of revolution, and the second was going to use fencing terminology to dissect one of the characters. I can't say that either of those would have been better or more entertaining than the one that did go up.

My feeling about not having engaged people was less about the vote totals and more about the comment totals. I know for me, and I suspect for quite a few of the other contestants, that I will vote for something if I thought it was well written or liked it enough, but I will comment on something if it engaged me in some way or made me go 'oh hey, me too!' I know that effect is harder to get when posting fiction, because I agree with everything posted in your comment to phoenixejc, but I have much more interest in posting fiction and have leaned that way through out the competition. (I have posted a few personal, real life entries, but they don't satisfy me as much as they seem to satisfy others.)

That's an interesting bit of trivia about Alice Walker. I hadn't heard it before, though I have heard other writers say similar things. When I post bits of the steampunk or the BDESFN I'm working with characters I know very well because I've been carrying them around with me and working on the projects they belong to for quite some time. When I post little bits of off the cuff fiction that don't tie to a bigger universe for the contest, they almost seem to go over better. It might be because I'm not taking into account the fact that my readers won't know as much of the background about the characters as I (or even my flist) will and when I post those off the cuff pieces I am also feeling the character out with the reader and trying to flesh them out for myself. That is definitely a thing I need to be more mindful of, and a habit I've been trying to break myself of as I move from fan fiction into the world of fiction that I hope will one day be published.

That is a good point about second person becoming Choose Your Own Adventure-ish. That's not my intention, but the point of view character is not one I'm familiar with, she's basically a way to make a point about the other two characters, who are characters I'm familiar with. I kind of don't want to set the story in one of their POVs, because I want an outsider to see them in a slightly distorted way that says more, I think, about who they are than how they work within their own peer group. I should perhaps make it first person or third person limited, though, to give me the benefit of fleshing out the character that seems to work well for me.

Food for thought while I spend the rest of today at work. Good questions asked, so thank you. And I'm always down for more feedback. The editorial process is possibly my favorite thing about writing.

[joyfulfeather.livejournal.com]

I definitely don't get thrown out of a story just because of that. Hm. I can understand people being uncomfortable with it, but I really think it's a neat technique. Maybe it depends on how it's applied. I think of it like the narrator is sitting down with the reader and saying, "Put yourself in my shoes." That can be wonderfully intense/intimate. I guess another perspective is the author talking to someone who isn't there. And then there's what I think most people think of, that the story is *about* the reader, somehow. It all depends on execution. I wish more people explored POV and tense options - that's one of my favorite things about writing short fiction. You're free to experiment!