Wheel Thoughts

[clauderainsrm]

 I'll be posting the poll in a bit, but it occurred to me that the time when the most people might be paying attention is when they are expecting a poll.  :D 

So this was as good of a time as any to add more on things from MY perspective.  Because that's what we all need right, more of *me* talking about me!  ;) 

***
I *really* liked the Wheel concept but I think there were areas where I would do it differently. 

-Having essentially a free pass on that first week instead of an "OMG" moment - due to one of the "everyone's back in the game' twists I think took away from the fear aspect.  Granted, it might have been good because it made people a little less tense about what was coming, because they knew there were more chances to return to the game if one of them took them out.   But it still would have been nice to have more of the "What did I just sign on for???" moment right from the jump. It gets people excited and talking. Even if they are complaining, they are still talking!

- Having too many "No Twists" on that first wheel - definitely a mistake.  I wouldn't have even had the first wheel at all in retrospect.  Again, it dulled the early stages when some of the more outlandish twists could have really made an impact. Maybe add a couple more "no twists" to the main wheel and just scrap that first stage one. The Wheel is the attraction here of this mini season and I think that would have highlighted the danger.  I think things picked up once I got rid of some of the "No Twists" from the board... but I also had to ask the Wheel first if I could do that. If it had said "No", we would have had it for the entire time. 

- Some of my favorite twists never saw the light of day, including ones that can not fit into a regular season.  Unless people *really* want a Shrapnel vote. (that takes out people around the middle of the pack) or a Gary-only voting!!  :D  Those are just a couple examples. Ultimately, I think more of my favorite twists ended up not showing up than not.   I WAS quite happy that Chekov's Gun made an appearance, even though it really only scratched the surface of what the potential for that twist could have been.  I was sincere when I said it couldn't be used against ME, or Idol.... because someone could have legitimately ended Idol entirely if I hadn't said that. That's how much power you had to throw around, if I hadn''t limited it beforehand!!! The only boundaries were your imaginations. It was used to save someone from elimination, which was a decent use of it. But I was hoping for some bigger swings when it made another appearance. But of course, that's one of those powers that can NOT show up in a regular Idol season. Much too "Calvinball" even in my world.  Wow though, there is so much more fun that could be had with it!

- Killers. Overall I thought the concept was fun in this limited space.  There are some people who thought the Killers had too much power. In retrospect, I don't think I gave them enough.  I would LOVE to have given them one "fake antidote" for the season. They could decide when to employ it. Someone thinks they are being saved - but WHAM, it was actually the poison, double damage!  I can hear your horrified shrieks already!!!  :D 

- Giving the antidote to the person with the most votes was a mistake. I wanted it to force them to make tough decisions. But the reality is that they didn't end up spreading it around much... because they usually felt like *they* were the biggest potential targets, and they weren't wrong! When I made it so that everyone had a vote, that upped the potential for chaos... it also gave people incentive to try to find the Killers... and the Killers more of a chance to disrupt that vote away from themselves. 

- Speaking of, I was entertaining the idea of a "smokescreen". Again, maybe you could only use it once... but when the Killers thought someone was onto them, even if it was an accurate guess, if the smokescreen was deployed, I wouldn't confirm or deny the identity of a Killer.  So they stayed alive, but there was doubt.  

- One of my favorite moments of this entire season was getting to seelegalpad819  navigate the early stages of the game as a Killer.  Honestly, if I could have handpicked someone, it would have been her.  She maneuvered the path so well.... between recruiting and poisoning... and staying one step ahead of the pack the entire time right up until the end stages of the game.  Honestly, my only major regret is the reaction to her reveal. No one signed up to be a Killer. It was literally "play this hand you are dealt" or be poisoned.  Fortunately the Wheel gave me someone who was a HUGE fan of reality TV, who wasn't one of the people most people think of if they are asked to name an Idol contestant who is a fan of reality TV. 
 
She didn't get a single comment about her incredible entries this season in her goodbye post. Or even about what a great job she had done as a Killer.  She was given an impossible task and performed it better than I could have ever imagined someone doing with it.  (Even if there was a point that due to Recruits, she lost control of the vote because she was outnumbered, so had to navigate that for awhile)  I won't lie, that's a regret because I felt like by being chosen by the Wheel for that task, she got shafted out of the love and respect she deserves as a long-standing member of the community and an incredible writer.  None of the other Killers got that treatment, but I think because everyone realized she was Alpha, that she caught the backlash that wasn't deserved.  Which feels horrible knowing that I caused that to happen,and hope that it doesn't carry over from this.  

- Would I do another Wheel season?  Maybe.  I think there is a lot of potential that was left on the table. I do agree that it works better with more people. So maybe that opportunity has passed and we will never get another shot to see what it *could have been*... I do think that it also works better with a more interactive and active host. Which I was not this year.  I haven't been in a bit due to being depressed. I'm sorry about that. I NEED to be in a better place mentally to do justice to the 20th anniversary. I want that to be a celebration and you can't really celebrate if the voice of the whole project is feeling hopeless. Kind of doesn't work!  :D 

- I don't know how this is going to end. But I really like our Final 3.  I've read 2/3 of the entries (as of this moment) and looking forward to the 3rd. I'm hoping that it will be an epic showdown between 3 worthy opponents! 

Comments

[flipflop_diva]

So, I didn’t realize until this post that legalpad819 was the OG killer! Damn! Good job!

I knew after a lot of process of elimination that she and I were killers together before we recruited Ro. Ngl I totally thought there were like 5 killers when I was recruited and then finally realized it was just us two lol.

I thought the killers had too much power before I was a killer because I thought they all knew who the others were, like mafia games and Traitors. So I thought they could strategize. But the way it worked ended up being super hard because you couldn’t actually discuss your thought process with anyone and had to hope you all wanted the same thing. Though being innocent wasn’t easy either. I was so convinced at one point that inkstained was a killer lol.

I thought this season was fun overall! I would have been happy with more chaos though. But I had fun! I do wish I had been able to contribute more to wheelhouses and such. Life was way busier than I expected and I feel bad about that.

Thank you for hosting Gary! I’m sorry things are so rough for you and I hope they start getting better soon, but thank you for still hosting this despite everything. I love Idol and I always miss it (and everyone) when it’s not happening ❤️

[clauderainsrm]

"But the way it worked ended up being super hard because you couldn’t actually discuss your thought process with anyone and had to hope you all wanted the same thing. "

There is also the danger of anyone who recruited you knows who you are. You know who the people you recruit are... which creates a danger for those coming later might end up being sacrificial lambs. The danger for the first couple of Killers is that the ones who come later might decide to poison *them*, since they have no idea!

[flipflop_diva]

Yes! Both of those things! Luckily for me we were further into the game so it was a little easier to avoid hopefully killing my partner by poison! Though now I’m trying to remember if I ever did select legalpad for poisoning. I’ll have to check!!

[alycewilson]

Sooooo... if you and legalpad were the only killers together, does that mean you left the rank of the killers and then were recruited again?

[flipflop_diva]

No! I think I was recruited by legalpad and bleodswean but she was outed before I got to do my first task, so it ended up just being me and legalpad (though I didn't realize that till later. I was convinced there were at least 3 of us until a couple weeks in and Gary said there was a tie, so obviously that meant 2 or 4 and there were barely any OG contestants left for it to be 4 lol).

And then we recruited Ro, but I was outed before she ever did her first task!

[alycewilson]

Since you're asking for feedback, I have a few thoughts.

About the killers: Obviously, the people who didn't get selected would not know how it works and might assume, like flipflopdiva did, that it was an open discussion or collaboration. I absolutely did NOT like all of the decisions that were voted upon, when I was in there, but as soon as I was unmasked, people were likely to think, in retrospect, that I did.

I don't know if that impacted any votes later in the season, but it might have. I was honestly very surprised that I wasn't eliminated the week after I was "caught."

About the other twists and turns, I don't have too much to say, although I think a "Gary-only vote" would have been hugely unpopular and possibly led to a lot of hurt feelings.

I'd also like to share with you some feedback I got when I was trying to encourage former LJI participants to come back and give the portfolios a read. In particular, I heard a suggestion that you try out a mini season with minimal twists, so that the focus is on the writing. According to one of the people I spoke to, there are writer's communities out there that might have members who'd like to try it out, if the prospect was "You write your best, and the voters decide." Just a thought!

BTW, as it turns out, I was actually eliminated at exactly the right time again. My dad had a health crisis that put him in the hospital on Christmas night, and while he's been getting steadily better (and is back to his normal cheerful self), it's been a big emotional weight that would have made it hard for me to make the final deadline. Good luck to those still competing! I'll be reading and voting later today.

[alycewilson]

Let me add that I'm a huge fan of reality competition shows. Basically, anything that involves creativity in some way, whether it be fashion, cooking, singing, modeling, etc. So, when the twist involves a new challenge, such as writing a double entry, or teaming up, or writing an entry in 48 hours, I just smiled and got to it. But I was less a fan of the "Survivor" style twists that involved gamesmanship, if that makes sense.

[bleodswean]

*HUGS* Best to your father, A!

[alycewilson]

Thank you! We knew something was off when he was struggling with a word game we were playing, and he's the guy who always does the NYT crossword in ink! Happy to report that he's now his cheerful self again, sitting up in bed and reading, and announcing to every caretaker that he's a retired physician who was in private practice for 50+ years.

The latest news is that he will most likely be released later this week into the portion of his senior living home that provides more medical help and supervision. Hopefully, he'll continue to progress from there.

[bleodswean]

Great news! And I'm so sorry to hear about the initial struggles. My mother is having some struggles. It's all so heart wrenching. It sure seems to me we aren't set up in this country to create positive last year living situations. It's good to hear your father is in a situation that sounds pretty positive for him!

[alycewilson]

We were so grateful we were able to find him such a great place, and right near my sister, too.

I'm sorry to hear that your mother is still facing struggles. You're right that it's very difficult to watch it happen. All we feel we can do is advocate for him. Certainly, that makes a difference, though, because he never would have gone to the E.R. by himself. Typical of many physicians, he was a great diagnostician but a terrible patient.

[halfshellvenus]

I'll add to that last point... my parents were both doctors, and so there was a lot of diagnosing at home. I got sent in for strep throat (to get antibiotics), but we rarely went to the doctor.

AND... as kids, we picked up a lot of layman's knowledge for self-diagnosis. Which unfortunately leads to a tendency to automatically minimize things. I wouldn't be surprised if that wasn't true of your dad as well.

[drippedonpaper]

I am So glad your dad is improving!!

[clauderainsrm]

“ In particular, I heard a suggestion that you try out a mini season with minimal twists, so that the focus is on the writing”. That was literally our last mini season. 🤣. Barely any twists at all in Mini.

This was a special “one off”. Hopefully anyone interested in Idol in the future knows that. (But I’m sure anyone encountering it for the first time under THESE circumstances would be “WTF is this??” 🤣

[alycewilson]

True! I honestly blame most of the decline in participation on the fact that people have moved off of blogging platforms onto the Book of Face (as we used to call it). And when you try to put out an announcement on FB about the season starting, or votes, or whatever, it only shows it to the handful of people it's deemed worthy of seeing it through its algorithm. I don't know about you, but I'm reluctant to use the "everyone" workaround, because I think people see it as a jerk move. Maybe the next time you're doing sign-ups, though, I'll swallow my pride and tag "everyone," just to get more people involved. The more people involved, the merrier!

[clauderainsrm]

“Next time” is the 20th anniversary of LJ Idol. I haven’t mapped it out yet. But the basic plan is minimal twists. (And definitely nothing overly strategic)

Still working it out in my head. But I want that to be a celebration.

[alycewilson]

Awesome! I'll tell my friends all about it when it drops and see how many people we can get out.

[drippedonpaper]

I've been thinking about this and I think it's a combination of the book of face, but also, in 20 years, if some of us have been around from near the start, we maybe went from young with more free time to having families and/or more demanding careers etc. The "free time and energy and ability to stay up late writing" is easier with the energy of our 20s-30s vs now, our 40s-50s. Just a thought.

So it's not from lack of wanting to participate. I do think the desire exists. :)

[kizzy]

Definitely this; OTOH I do know some fellow *old* people who are now just as keen to pick everything back up on the heels of, oh, say being empty nesters or retired, partially retired, etc. Some of them played Idol back in the day. However, there are others who remember the chaos of earlier seasons and and still have a sort of PTSD from it. They've either gone off to do their own things or have stopped writing entirely.

[clauderainsrm]

For anyone curious- I’d have to confirm this with my notes but pretty sure I’m right that you were the only person to vote “Recruit” every round during your time as a Killer. Which, given what people know of you, completely in character.

We also had one person who was the opposite, the single most “blood thirsty” of all the Killers, who never voted to recruit. Ro!!! Which is of course absolutely hilarious and not in character at all. She seemed to really embrace the role! 🤣🤣

[alycewilson]

I'm not certain there either. I know I wasn't voting to poison people every week, for sure. I was also somewhat amused by the idea that, if we recruited enough people, we would ALL unknowingly be in cahoots as killers.

[halfshellvenus]

Oh, I'm so sorry to hear about your Dad. I'm glad he's doing better now.

You're right in thinking that most of us who were never killers thought there was a lot more collaboration (or even basic knowledge about who the other killers were). It might have been good to explain that roll and its ramifications early on in the game. I think We only got some answers because I kept asking about them in email. I haven't played any time of board or video game with that kind of twist, so ALL of it was new to me.

[kizzy]

I interpreted this similar too, as you already know ;) At the outset I had to ask our night kid at work about how killers work in actual gaming since he's a diehard gamer. He explained it to me, then asked me why I asked, so I had to give him a TL/DR description of this mini season. He thought it would be very difficult to pull off given how Idol isn't a video game. His explanation made it a tad clearer to me, but like you, I still didn't completely understand it because I've never played a game with that kind of twist either.

[bleodswean]

As always, G, and I'm going on twelve years here Idoling, I am just so utterly grateful to you for the work and dedication and craziness you bring to your amazing writing "game". I fear and often have feared, that because I know nothing, zilch, zero, nada about reality tv, that I miss much of the referential aspects here in Idol. That's how it felt when I was recruited as a killer and I won't say much in case you decide to revisit this dastardliness again, but it was a strange, isolated experience of recruit / poison. I think I lack the proper "spirit" for such shenanigans.

The Wheel WAS tricksy! And I said before I think it would be more "fun" if such a thing could even be imagined, with a larger crowd with less writerly aspirations invested. My opinion, others will vary.

Overall, it was a great mini! So many astonishingly gifted writers gifting us the reader with their work! And you at the helm, steering through your own storms and heartache, and all of us HOLDING FAST. Thank you, G. Thank you. I'm holding you in my thoughts and wishing a solid New Year full of hope and love and life for you and for all of us!!!

[alycewilson]

Happy New Year to you!

[halfshellvenus]

It's... a retrospective! I wish my office still did these. \o?

I wondered if legalpad19 was the original killer! And you never made it clear how that killer was chosen. If a wheel did it for you, you got very lucky indeed!

I enjoyed her writing this season, and commented on her entries each week, so I hope she knew that. I sounds like she navigated her role really well, though none of us who weren't killers were every really sure how that worked until very late in the game. I think xeena was the only person who was really on top of keeping track of how many killers existed, and who had been accused and when. Personally, I was too naive about the whole process to get the jump on it at all.

because they usually felt like *they* were the biggest potential targets, and they weren't wrong!
So, I would say that your original method was the fairest for that point in time. And again... I still think the killers had too MUCH power. Some people loved the concept as a twist, but I think an equal number of people hated it. :(

One thing that was never clear was how MANY wheels were in play for the season, and when each was used. And were these actual spinners you made with cardboard and felt markers and arrows, or was there an online place where you could make your own "wheel"?

In closing, I am grateful that you hosted the Wheel season, and I hope it was still fun for you in spite of everything else going on in your life. It's always wonderful to have another Idol season, and this will go down as one of the most memorable! :D

[clauderainsrm]

"
I wondered if [profile] legalpad19 was the original killer! And you never made it clear how that killer was chosen. If a wheel did it for you, you got very lucky indeed!"

I thought I mentioned it in the initial posts, but with so much new information coming at people, there is a tendency for some details to get lost in the weeds. I probably was too vague as well. :D The first spin of the Wheel determined how many Killers we were starting with, between 1-3. The Wheel landed on 1, which I thought "Well, this twist is going to be ending FAST". Then I spun it again, and it landed on legalpad819, and I was really happy with that result.

Worst case scenario (for me) would have been someone like a rayaso, who would have chosen to be poisoned rather than be the first Killer. Then tell everyone he's been poisoned, in public, so that he gets the antidote. Twist over.

Every time someone was recruited, I kept waiting for them to either mention it in the Wheelhouse OR started wondering if they were using that information to form alliances with some of the top vote getters. "I will steer the poison vote away from you if you steer the Accusation vote away from me!" sort of thing.

legadpad8819 was kind of the ideal candidate, a hardcore reality show fan who people forget is a hardcore reality show fan. (Despite probably being the BIGGEST one around - she attends live tapings of Rob Has a Podcast!!!)

"One thing that was never clear was how MANY wheels were in play for the season, and when each was used. And were these actual spinners you made with cardboard and felt markers and arrows, or was there an online place where you could make your own "wheel"?"

Full disclosure, here is my Wheel: https://www.google.com/search?si=AMgyJEshrYQEBY7UXYh6HVasxdBDe9vZySPAlqBJEobGAKyT9nv-vggq61A5Kqt5rTooVZiQwRrFDscLLrORbORKClP3tN9NNA==&biw=1410&bih=853&dpr=1.6

It's a random number generator. (it goes up to 20, so I staged some of the "more outrageous" twists over 20, so we wouldn't get to them right away) I kept a list of twists, numbered. So when the wheel landed on that number, that's what we did.

So it was technically the same wheel. But it was used with different number combinations.

I DID consider making an actual wheel. But I figured this was more uniform.

I would spin to determine if there WAS going to be a twist. (1-5 with a list of "Twist/No Twist" options.) Then I'd spin to determine which twist on the List of Twists was going to be used that week.

I had another list of potential prompts, all numbered. I'd spin the Wheel again!

[clauderainsrm]

And just because it's kind of funny - I can also tell you that any time there was a "Yes or No" decision I'd use that same link, but the coin flip option. Heads Yes. Tails No.

[halfshellvenus]

Ah, so you probably drew physical wheels, but the spin result was randomly generated by the Google spinner. That makes sense.

Worst case scenario (for me) would have been someone like a rayaso, who would have chosen to be poisoned rather than be the first Killer. Then tell everyone he's been poisoned, in public, so that he gets the antidote. Twist over.
Hahahaha! That does sound like rayaso. Or me. Or potentially Alyce or bleodswean. ;)

[xeena]

So, I would say that your original method was the fairest for that point in time. And again... I still think the killers had too MUCH power thisss.

It felt like the killers did have an advantage over those who weren't killers. Plus, I felt bad when people were eliminated before a poll after writing an entry :/
I'd have to go back and check but I know it happened for sure to at least 5 people including you before you were able to re-join 🫂
I have to admit too that having to deal with being poisoned more than once got old fast for me tbh.

[halfshellvenus]

Plus, I felt bad when people were eliminated before a poll after writing an entry :/
It was a double bummer-- you get unexpectedly eliminated after going to the trouble to write an entry, AND then nobody reads the entry you wrote.

I think minimally, it would have been good to link to the entry in the voting post. Not as part of the poll, but as a note such as:

"So-and-so was poisoned by the killers, but you should still read their entry here."

Because if you don't provide a helpful link, few people actually WILL read the entry. And that is extra crappy for the eliminated person. :(

[kizzy]

Had I still been playing I probably would've sworn more than once at The Wheel for landing on what it landed on :glares: But hey, that's part of the fun of having The Wheel, IMO. Mix it up rather than just giving prompt and only the prompt!

That said, I think The Wheel can exist solo without the Killer aspect. I figured early on that both legalpad and Ro were killers with my Super Kizzy Sense :D Honestly, though, I don't feel the Killer aspect added anything to the game other than it being an enhancement.

I know this year hasn't been easy for you, Gary, but the fact that you soldiered on with Idol is testament to your ability to weather whatever storms the universe tosses. It would be lovely to have the 20th anniversary mimic what Idol used to be. Let's celebrate anyway!

[drippedonpaper]

Definitely let's celebrate :)

[inkstainedfingertips]

To be honest, the "Killers" twist wasn't my favorite thing ever. I personally thought they had too much power, and we didn't have enough ways to defend ourselves. I mean, it would kind of suck to write an entire piece only to find out it didn't count because you were poisoned and had no way to protect yourself. I did enjoy trying to puzzle out who the killers were with xeena though. That was fun, so there's that.

But I suppose that was the point? I'm not familiar with the Traitors (I think that's the game the twist was taken from), so I readily admit to not understanding all the nuances. Perhaps I would have enjoyed it more had I been familiar with the show. I just thought dealing with the poison on top of the chaos the wheel was going to throw at us was a bit much.

That being said, the Wheel didn't throw nearly as much chaos at us as I'd expected. I was actually looking forward to more of that chaos and giant, looping, twists and turns. So, I was a bit surprised when we didn't get *more* chaos and the Wheel was kind to us for the most part. Honestly, I was hoping for some real madness. ha ha.

Overall, though, I've had a lot of fun this season and am really glad I came back.

Also, a big thanks to clauderainsrm for putting this season together. Especially with so much going on in your own life. I know your head and heart weren't really in it... how could it be? And I really hope life levels out for you soon, man. I hope you move from "okay" to "good" very soon.

Also, I know you're not even thinking about the 20th Anniversary yet (has it really been that long, FFS?) but if I have a vote, I'd love to see mass chaos. Throw us twists and turns (just not poison). I personally think it's in keeping with the spirit of Idol ha ha.

Thank you, Gary.

[xeena]

did enjoy trying to puzzle out who the killers were with [personal profile] xeena though. That was fun, so there's that. yesss hehe all our puzzling together was so much fun <3 <3

I personally thought they had too much power, and we didn't have enough ways to defend ourselves. I mean, it would kind of suck to write an entire piece only to find out it didn't count because you were poisoned and had no way to protect yourself. thiiis. and the way it almost happened to me more than once got old fast for me.


the Wheel didn't throw nearly as much chaos at us as I'd expected. I was actually looking forward to more of that chaos and giant, looping, twists and turns. So, I was a bit surprised when we didn't get *more* chaos and the Wheel was kind to us for the most part. Honestly, I was hoping for some real madness. thisss. i loved the wheel's writing twists, especially the intersection <3 i was hoping for even more writing themed chaos too!

[xeena]

Reposting because I was half asleep earlier and wanted to add a bit more!

Someone thinks they are being saved - but WHAM, it was actually the poison, double damage! having survived more than one poison attempt, I'm very glad this wasn't there, 🤣😭

Woah, legalpad819 was NOT who I thought the original killer was! I enjoyed LP's entries a lot though and I hope she comes back if/when there is another season.

I really enjoyed the wheel's writing chaos, and would love to see the wheel make a comeback again with its chaotic prompts. I would have loved even more writing twists and chaos too, tbh.

Thank you for hosting this again this year, even though things are obviously not the best right now for you. I can't begin to tell you what a huge and wonderful impact it has had on my life. I hope that in some small way running this was fun even though 2025 was not the greatest year for you.
I hope 2026 will bring you peace and happiness, Gary.

[clauderainsrm]

There were definitely more writing oriented twists on the Wheel that never came to light as well as a ton of "Calvinball" type twists.

It would have been interesting if that initial spin that determined the Killers had landed on Big Brother instead of the Traitors. I'm wondering what people would have thought of a "Head of Household" nominating for elimination system. :D

[drippedonpaper]

Wow, that would be very different. An idea for the future? :)