Green Room - Week 36 - Day 2
Feb. 4th, 2015 10:03 am![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
clauderainsrm.livejournal.com posting in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png){kind=small}
therealljidolYesterday afternoon, the internet exploded with delight over OMG HARPER LEE IS RELEASING A NEW BOOK!!!
Last night, the internet reacted with horror over "OMG, Harper Lee actually didn't want this published and her sister was helping her do that, but now that her sister is as dead as that Nationwide kid, Harper Lee is being taken advantage of now that she is unable to make these decisions for herself!"
It was weird, since all of that information was in most of the early postings as well.
It was kind of like the internet, collectively, saw a headline and posted their reactions and only got around to reading the article a few hours later! :)
***
So what about YOU? Excited? Upset?
If she *really* didn't want it published, why does it still exist? Is it one of those things that would have normally been "found" and published once she was gone? If she honestly doesn't want it to the see the light of the day (or didn't when she was in a better state of mind) - does *that* make a difference to you?
How much control do you really have over what you create? How long does that control last? How long *should* it last?
Some people argue that it doesn't matter if they write fanfic for a world where the author has expressed a dislike for it. Others won't touch it if the author/creator doesn't approve.
Some people have bootleg Calvin and Hobbes merchandise even though Bill Watterson specifically said he didn't want any made.
Which are all wildly different things - but part of the overall question.
Follow-up: If you put aside a manuscript that you didn't like, but didn't want to get rid of - would you care if someone found it and published it after you died? (Obviously not "would you care after you were dead, but rather a "If you knew that was going to happen NOW - would you care? Would you destroy it so it couldn't happen? Or tie blinking lights around it with a sign saying READ ME!!!)
***
Speaking of "Read Me" - the Quick Fire Judges are busy reading. So if you have a free moment, you should check these out as well: http://therealljidol.livejournal.com/833059.html
People are also voting on "The Spirit of LJ Idol, Season 9" award: http://therealljidol.livejournal.com/832594.html
Both of these ballots have had a few chuckles for me - showing just how different tastes are - with ballots that almost could have been turned upside down coming in back to back! :) People look for different things, and they have different tastes, and that's what makes life so much fun/frustrating at times! :P
***
People are also waiting to read your entries for the main Topic: http://therealljidol.livejournal.com/832879.html
If you still need a little help, stop by the Work Room: http://therealljidol.livejournal.com/833401.html
Last night, the internet reacted with horror over "OMG, Harper Lee actually didn't want this published and her sister was helping her do that, but now that her sister is as dead as that Nationwide kid, Harper Lee is being taken advantage of now that she is unable to make these decisions for herself!"
It was weird, since all of that information was in most of the early postings as well.
It was kind of like the internet, collectively, saw a headline and posted their reactions and only got around to reading the article a few hours later! :)
***
So what about YOU? Excited? Upset?
If she *really* didn't want it published, why does it still exist? Is it one of those things that would have normally been "found" and published once she was gone? If she honestly doesn't want it to the see the light of the day (or didn't when she was in a better state of mind) - does *that* make a difference to you?
How much control do you really have over what you create? How long does that control last? How long *should* it last?
Some people argue that it doesn't matter if they write fanfic for a world where the author has expressed a dislike for it. Others won't touch it if the author/creator doesn't approve.
Some people have bootleg Calvin and Hobbes merchandise even though Bill Watterson specifically said he didn't want any made.
Which are all wildly different things - but part of the overall question.
Follow-up: If you put aside a manuscript that you didn't like, but didn't want to get rid of - would you care if someone found it and published it after you died? (Obviously not "would you care after you were dead, but rather a "If you knew that was going to happen NOW - would you care? Would you destroy it so it couldn't happen? Or tie blinking lights around it with a sign saying READ ME!!!)
***
Speaking of "Read Me" - the Quick Fire Judges are busy reading. So if you have a free moment, you should check these out as well: http://therealljidol.livejournal.com/833059.html
People are also voting on "The Spirit of LJ Idol, Season 9" award: http://therealljidol.livejournal.com/832594.html
Both of these ballots have had a few chuckles for me - showing just how different tastes are - with ballots that almost could have been turned upside down coming in back to back! :) People look for different things, and they have different tastes, and that's what makes life so much fun/frustrating at times! :P
***
People are also waiting to read your entries for the main Topic: http://therealljidol.livejournal.com/832879.html
If you still need a little help, stop by the Work Room: http://therealljidol.livejournal.com/833401.html
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2015-02-04 04:05 pm (UTC)Maybe opening a can of worms here, but I have waffled back and forth about fan fic. I mean -- I've got some serious issues with it that I have a difficult time getting past as a writer. That being said, you can find plenty of my "Phanfic" from 1998 floating around. If an author stated that they had a problem with folks writing fan fic about their world, I would absolutely stay away from it out of respect.
no subject
Date: 2015-02-04 06:51 pm (UTC)It's one of the reasons I have a whole, separate Internet life, partly for discussions I wouldn't want to have over and over with friends and family. Most would just think it's silly.
OTOH, I am really, really proud of the fanfic poem I wrote based on "The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock," so there's that. ;)
TV shows and movies, I don't worry about at all, regarding fanfic. I think it usually helps the source (in terms of attention and devotion) more than hurts it.
I don't generally partake of the literary-based fanfic (apart from the above), because there's such rich detail in the characters and writing style from the original author that it would be very hard to 1) duplicate the style, or 2) make anything more interesting than the author would already have written (my opinion, at least).
I don't want fanfic Thursday Next, I want Jasper Fforde to write more of it. Same for Smekday. Or not-- I already love what's there.
Dang, I thought this would be shorter. :O
no subject
Date: 2015-02-05 02:41 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-02-05 07:35 pm (UTC)The piece is here (http://halfshellvenus.livejournal.com/572987.html), and the Author's Note says everything about why it had to happen. Three or four other authors wrote pieces at that same time (up at AO3), because that prompt was irrestible to anyone who loves that poem. :D
no subject
Date: 2015-02-04 04:49 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-02-04 05:15 pm (UTC)Nice try. :P
no subject
Date: 2015-02-04 05:28 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-02-04 05:48 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-02-04 05:49 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-02-04 05:28 pm (UTC)And as for fanfiction... oh man.. complicated feelings. On the one hand, I feel that once you've put something out into the world, it's out there. People can and will do with it as they will. I don't read much of any fanfic. And I start to say that I don't write it or feel the urge to play in other people's sandboxes and stop myself - because hey, I had an alt this season writing in the style of Lovecraft, in the alleged voice of one of his characters. Where's the line between pastiche and fanfic? Parody or satire and fanfic? Does it matter? Is one more legitimate than the others, less offensive to the creator? Again, does it matter? But the way works inspire and move others to create seems a neat thing to me, and mostly I think stories that are out there are more or less free game.
And then I turn it around and try to apply that to myself - like, how would I feel if someone wanted to write stuff based off of my fiction? And most of what I come up with is "weird", "surprised" and "uncomfortable". It brings up all sorts of insecurities, honestly - so that's more about me than about any work that would be created because of or inspired by my stuff. I think really it has to depend on context and approach, but in the end my personal feelings don't actually matter that much. People do what they do, and stories are wonderful in that they have lives of their own. Trying to control those lives is a doomed effort certain to lead only to frustration. I can state an opinion - and any opinion will always be a "well, in this case right here and right now? I do/don't feel awesome about this" - but the story is the story and whether it lives on and mutates in someone's brain or personal files or the internet for all to read, that's how it goes.
no subject
Date: 2015-02-04 05:53 pm (UTC)" I think really it has to depend on context and approach, but in the end my personal feelings don't actually matter that much. People do what they do, and stories are wonderful in that they have lives of their own. Trying to control those lives is a doomed effort certain to lead only to frustration."
What if someone wants to take your characters/setting and do something "problematic" with them?
I'm purposefully being vague because that word (and that line) is going to be different for every person. But think of something that you personally would find horrible and then imagine that someone says "This is the story I am inspired to tell!" and writes it.
no subject
Date: 2015-02-04 06:01 pm (UTC)If they don't ask and do inform me about it? I would probably let them know I was uncomfortable with it, and why, but not ask them to remove it or anything - just give more information so they could decide what to do with it.
If they didn't ask, didn't inform me, and I just stumbled upon it in the wilds of the internet or something? I'd be a combination of weirded out, baffled, uncomfortable and flattered (because flattered is in every mix of this kind of thing) and then just move along and try really hard not to think about it much.
For all scenarios, I might go back and revisit the original piece to see if I could see what in there inspired the 'problematic' thing, to see if I could also get to point b from point a,as it were. But mostly I think I'd just try (and maybe fail?) to take it in stride. Inspiration is weird. It can stem from all kinds of things. Because writing is so personal, I think it would be really hard not to take it personally - but their writing is personal too. So it goes.
no subject
Date: 2015-02-04 06:53 pm (UTC)I'll still want to read it, though. Like that blogger, well... Atticus Finch!
no subject
Date: 2015-02-04 05:36 pm (UTC)The fanfiction thing is difficult. I haven't written any Game of Thrones fanfiction despite loving Game of Thrones, I'm not sure if this is due to some for of subconscious respecting of G RR Martin's wishes. At what point would it be wrong. The posting of fanfiction is not its inception. Would that be the line that makes it 'bad'? Or would writing fanfic that you never posted still disrespect the author? What about thinking it? I usually think out so many scenes in much detail before they go anywhere near a computer. Can we say creative thought alone is bad?
The thing is, I genuinely struggle with this notion. On one hand I find it difficult to understand, especially as I would consider it paying great respect to me if anyone ever chose to write fanfic of something I wrote. The greatest thing as a creative is to inspire further passion and creativity, by sharing a world, everyone gets to live and play in that world, denying that seems to deny passion for the world itself.
On the other hand. I listened to an interview by GRRMartin and I realised, if I had that view I would find fanfic something I didn't want to happen. It's about the perception of the world created, and what makes it true to itself. It was on the belief that any creation of the world added to the canon of the world, was merely a different version of the world. Which, as the series is still going, can be problematic.
no subject
Date: 2015-02-04 06:44 pm (UTC)We are so often our own worst critics, and sometimes we're right about our own limitations. Other times, we may be overreacting.
For another angle on this issue (and this gets debated regularly), there are those who say that Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant should have retired earlier... and others who say that "old" Kobe Bryant and "old" Michael Jordan are still significantly better players than most, in a setting that holds the best of the best.
no subject
Date: 2015-02-04 06:48 pm (UTC)Personally, though? Oh my god. Let me get a fucking fandom. I would troll the HELL out of that thing. I would make the damn kinkmeme myself! I want the TVtropes page and the section on fanfiction.net and AO3. I even want the problematic, awfully written fanfic. The fanart! Oh, god, the fanart.
Except I'd be so pissed if artists whitewashed any of my characters. But, again, who am I to argue against their artistic vision? And I can always ignore that that part of the fandom even exists.
But all of this is probably why I refuse to get my trilogy published until it's complete. The whole story, every piece of it. Because then I can't be influenced by the outside world/the world of fandom. And no one will have to wait years and years for the next book. ;)
no subject
Date: 2015-02-04 08:37 pm (UTC)THIS.
Ah, the fun that could be had with tumblr.
no subject
Date: 2015-02-04 09:22 pm (UTC)I would also find it hilarious if I never became a BNF in my own fandom, because that would fucking crack me the hell up. I WRITE THE DAMN THING YOU LOVE. WHY DO YOU NOT LOVE MY FIC??? xD
no subject
Date: 2015-02-05 06:23 pm (UTC)LOLOL. YES. It's inevitable. I would so be tiny in my own fandom and I'd write loads of spoilers in and no one would ever know. It would be hilarious.
no subject
Date: 2015-02-05 06:32 pm (UTC)Yesssss. Oh god, and then when people discovered that fic the fans would be like THEY PREDICTED THE FUTUREEEE. OMG.
This is why I am not allowed to have my own fandom.
no subject
Date: 2015-02-05 06:42 pm (UTC)YES. Psychic Trolls.
Also you explain the why of writing fanfic (somewhere below in comments) so brilliantly, it's like you took all my crazy feelings and put them onto coherent words.
no subject
Date: 2015-02-05 06:46 pm (UTC)Yayyy, I tried. xD It's sometimes so hard to explain, because as a writer of (primarily) original fiction now, it's like BUT NO. FANFICTION WAS MY FIRST LOVE. IT'S WHAT INSPIRED LIKE 90% OF MY CURRENT NOVEL IDEAS.
I mean, shit. "Just Talk" (one of my planned novels) started out originally as an AU idea for my fricken planned trilogy, lol.
no subject
Date: 2015-02-05 06:53 pm (UTC):D. That's so cool. Some of my novel characters are based on characters I wrote in fanfic too. Fanfic is such a massive inspiration source.
no subject
Date: 2015-02-05 07:00 pm (UTC)Savin would probably sleep with her whole cast. Probably. *emphatic nodding*
It really is! And this is why I don't knock it. It can definitely inspire whole new things. :)
no subject
Date: 2015-02-04 10:42 pm (UTC)Spoken by someone who's learned the Robert Jordan Lesson: If you drag your series out over years and years, you may die before it's completed and someone else will have to finish it for you. See also: Frank Herbert.
no subject
Date: 2015-02-04 10:46 pm (UTC)I mean, I have the major plot points of all three books figured out in my head, but still. I need to actually WRITE them.
no subject
Date: 2015-02-05 01:41 am (UTC)Same here. I need to give my characters some Ritalin so they'll quit jumping around from time to time and give me an opportunity to write in a linear fashion.
I refused to read Robert Jordan's meandering epic mainly because he dawdled along about finishing it, even when Death came a-knockin' on his door. Also because my friend the Irish Storyteller told me all about the many ways Winter's Heart sucked. His summarization is better than the book could ever hope to be.
no subject
Date: 2015-02-04 07:22 pm (UTC)i think it's different from fanfic, tho. fifty shades of grey aside, fanfic isn't written and shared for profit, and harper lee's new novel very clearly is. altho yeah, some authors are explicitly anti-fanfic but that doesn't necessarily stop people from writing it. you don't always have a lot of control over your work once you send it out in the world. you can't control everything people do with it. (aside from someone, say, selling unauthorized merch, i guess. ) and i think one reason fanfic can get away with it is because it's not for profit. no one's making money off it. it's not intended to take fans away from the original property. personally i think it's kind of ethically hinky to post fic even if the creator has said they don't want you to - i agree with
i understand why authors don't like it, but i know there are also authors who do. i've written fanfic, and it would be hypocritical of me to turn around and say no, you can't write it for my work. i'd probably just tell people that if they want to, go ahead, have fun, knock yourself out, i'm super flattered, but i don't necessarily need to see it. i don't know if i'd be able to stop myself from looking for it, tho, if i knew it existed.
i dunno. fanfic is a tricky thing. i think it should be allowed to flourish, and i think you should respect the creators who don't want you to write it. and i'm honestly not sure what i think of harper lee's new novel, other than if it kind of sucks, i don't want it to hurt her reputation as the woman who wrote tkam.
no subject
Date: 2015-02-04 08:35 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-02-04 10:16 pm (UTC)That this is happening within three months of her sister (her lawyer's) death and that she is widely considered to be not capable of making her own decisions—that's pretty telling, to me.
Re: how much control do you have over stuff—this is why copyright law exists (and gets abused, but). It's not perfect—it doesn't prevent people from, say, writing fan fiction when you don't want them to (sort of a legal grey area as long as you're not profiting from it—it's been interpreted differently at different points in time but generally falls under 'fair use'...), but it does mean that you're able to serve a cease-and-desist if someone does write something, or if they're producing and trying to publish a knockoff of your work, etc. (See also: JD Salinger and the Catcher in the Rye sequel that brought him back out of hiding.)
I'm generally OK with the idea that once I put something out, it's out for people to do with what they will. I don't have control over what people do—I mean, I could be like, "no fan fic, ever!", but that's not going to stop the kid that has a notebook they write fan fic of my characters in and pass around at school or whatnot. I got comfortable sharing my writing through fan fiction, and I don't know that I'd be as OK with critique &etc now if I hadn't written it.
At the same time, I feel like you have to respect the creators' wishes. Robin McKinley has stated repeatedly that she doesn't want fan fiction written of her work, and so, fine: I never wrote it (and at this point probably never will), and I won't read it, either. I know there are people that write it, and that's their decision, but if someone comes out and goes, "hey guys, please don't"—I'm going to respect that.
Re: manuscripts and death—I'm dead. If they think it's good enough to publish, then have at.
no subject
Date: 2015-02-04 10:47 pm (UTC)Video games, now, I'll fanfic the hell out of those. The characters are painted in broad strokes and there's lots of room to play with them and your character(s).
As for Harper Lee's next book, I'll read it. No hesitation. However, I am extremely disappointed in all y'all because the grim spectre of Atticus/Miss Maudie fanfic has not even once raised its head in this comment thread. :P
no subject
Date: 2015-02-04 10:54 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-02-05 01:44 am (UTC)Amen.
no subject
Date: 2015-02-05 02:18 am (UTC)Part of me hopes she ended it on a cliffhanger, though.
Fanfiction ... well, I'm glad it's something that gets people writing and expressing themselves? But if you've learned how to be really expressive, and you're putting imagination into the stories you craft, why paint-by-numbers with someone else's universe?
no subject
Date: 2015-02-05 02:26 am (UTC)Two: Because I consider it practice with keeping my own characters in character -- the stronger I am at writing characters who aren't my own, the better I understand my own.
Three: Because I fucking love the fandom in particular and it resonates within me and I want to be as intimately familiar with it as I can be, which means writing fanfiction.
In short: if I have written fanfiction for something, it means that piece of media has touched me in a way very few things have. It means I live, eat, and breathe that universe as much as I eat, live, breathe my own, and the only way to deal with THAT MANY FEELINGS is to write.
Don't get me wrong; I don't write fanfic as frequently as I have in the past, but I still play with others' characters on occasion. Because I enjoy it. Sometimes more than writing original fiction, which requires a certain amount of work and thought process. Fanfic I can really let go and relax and ease into it and meander and do as I please.
no subject
Date: 2015-02-05 02:51 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-02-05 02:57 am (UTC)Either way, it's hilarious!
no subject
Date: 2015-02-05 03:33 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-02-05 04:25 am (UTC)